CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby costumenastional » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:31 am

DrKoontzDC wrote:Hello Costumenastional,
I thought these pics might help to better your understanding. You know what they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.


DrKoontzDC wrote:I hope you're enjoy your weekend!

I enjoy life in general way better than before thanks to you two.

First of all it's fantastic to see you here. What Dr Flanagan is doing is extremely helpful and i am very glad you might take some burden of his shoulders :)
It's only going to be worse haha
Seriously, thank you both.
As i told you, if even one more person finds the reason of his suffering like i did with the help of you two fantastic physicians, it s gonna be a huge success.
Not to mention that its gonna be more than one that will be helped...

Thank you for the links. Nice pics. The ligaments can be seen very well among others.


Have a nice rest.

And one more time, thank you..
Last edited by costumenastional on Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby silverbirch » Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:29 pm

Thankyou costumenastional for shareing your info and educateing me

As a result of your thread I sourced out Dr F web site placed a post and got the name of a Dr Heidi here in the Uk appointment 26th October

Ive had CCSVI collaterals x3 on my left to date Ive not had steriods or DMD - I feel that I have restenosed my MS symptoms are mild

I had a car crash 25 years ago - whip lash - the result of that left me with bad migraines and a very cold right noistrel treated with counter meds -(imigrian in later years) Ive since learned Imigrain can cause brain lesions !!! I was popping them alot even before a long drive pre empting migraine

Any how I had an attack 18mts ago thought to be a stroke then was DX with RRMS ..... never got another migraine but got a lovely red rash

but the neck cracking is there Ive always had a lower bad back and the feeling of a thumb in my right butt since attack my whole right hand side of back is slightley numb, right leg heavy even the right side of my skull is numb highlighted when blow drying my hair in the shower the right side of body is heat senceative. Virtigo mild but noticable to me if you can get sitting down virtigo I have it , I also get a weird feeling of virtigo when watching tv e.g someone falling off a cliff
This never went away after liberation

Benefits of liberation cog fog , facial colouring , body tempt normal now prior to liberation always cold I also perspire now . Again my ms symptoms were mild and was only DX with ms 18 mts ago with no prior ms symptoms
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Postby costumenastional » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:21 pm

silverbirch wrote:As a result of your thread I sourced out Dr F web site placed a post and got the name of a Dr Heidi here in the Uk appointment 26th October



Dear friend, i wish you my best. I am not a specialist of course but it sounds that by making that appointment you are doing the right thing. Please keep us in the loop.

I ll repeat what Dr Flanagan once told me: by exploring the possibility of spinal cord trauma you got nothing to loose and potentially a lot to gain. I strongly suspect that this doesn't apply only to me.
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Postby DrKoontzDC » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:30 am

I am acquainted with Dr. Heidi Grant and have invited her to join the forum and the discussion. She is a NUCCA Chiropractor and holds a diplomat in Chiropractic Neurology (DACNB). Towards the end of October she will be speaking about Upper Cervical Chiropractic at the International Conference on Integrative Medicine in Jerusalem.
http://www.mediconvention.com/en/
I for one will be very interested to hear how her presentation on Upper Cervical Chiropractic is received.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:33 am

yw kathryn. i'm just down the QE from u :)
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Postby silverbirch » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:08 am

DrKoontzDC wrote: She is a NUCCA Chiropractor and holds a diplomat in Chiropractic Neurology (DACNB).

I for one will be very interested to hear how her presentation on Upper Cervical Chiropractic is received.


Dr so sorry what does diplomat mean ? I am not an educated person ..
How could we hear it ? would it be placed on you tube ?
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Postby uprightdoc » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:51 am

The diplomate in neurology is awarded after completing a three year post graduate course and successfully passing written, oral and practical exams. I recieved my diplomate in neurology (DABCN) in 1989 from the American College of Chiropractic Neurology.
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Postby Kathryn333 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:40 pm

Dr. Flanagan, Dr. Koontz, sorry to keep popping up and asking questions. I’m beginning to think qualifications and training are different in Canada. After receiving your advice, I googled “upper cervical chiropractors” and came up with a name. I called and spoke to him. He’s listed his specialties on his own site, but there was no mention of upper cervical treatment, even though his name came up when I googled it. When I questioned him, he told me there was no such specialty, and any trained chiropractor could give upper cervical treatment. I’ve read your postings, Dr. Flanagan, and I understand how specialized the treatment is. I’m not sure I’m going to be able to find it here. We do have several Craniosacral Therapy specialists. Would that be of any help to me?

Dr. Flanagan, I never considered myself a high risk for stroke. I know the family history isn’t good, but I always associated high blood pressure with a stroke. I figured my low blood pressure was the good thing I had going for me. Now I find out low blood pressure creates more issues. I’ve always had low blood pressure, and my doctor has never indicated it was a health concern.

I keep re-reading this site and trying to absorb and remember as much as I can, but the information gets scrambled. I have trouble processing/understanding anything that’s complicated, and the human body is certainly complicated.

Jimmylegs, it’s a small world, neighbour. I live just west of Toronto, in Mississauga. Where are you?
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Postby uprightdoc » Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:21 pm

Kathryn, you have "extensive bihemispheric periventricular lesions" and only one known lesion in the cerebellum of the brainstem. Except for one lesion in the cerebellum most of your lesions come from the anterior and middle cerebral arteries which are the ones most commonly involved in strokes. You have a grandfather with Alzheimer's. He also had high blood pressure which make it sound more like multi infarct dementia. You had an uncle with diabetes which raises the risk of stroke and heart attacks. Two of your uncles also had strokes. Lastly, you had stroke like symptoms on one half of your body after delivery of your child when arterial blood pressure increases and bearing down for delievery increases venous back pressure. Panting, which is often used can further lead to constriction of blood vessels due to decreased CO2 levels. These cause perfect conditions for transient ischmic mini type strokes. In contrast to your grandfather, you have low blood pressure, which may be causing chronic ischemia. Chronic ischemia is a chief suspect in demyelination. There are genetic endocrine, metabolic and circulatory problems that need to be considered and thoroughly investigated in your case.
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Postby uprightdoc » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:32 am

Kathryn, I have asked Dr. Charles Woodfield of the NUCCA research division for a NUCCA upper cervical chiropractor in your area or somewhere in Toronto. I will get back to you.
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Postby Kathryn333 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:31 am

Thank you so much, Dr. Flanagan. I live in Mississauga, Ontario. I will wait until I hear from you.
I did understand the importance, and I did do my homework. I called around on the weekend, and I was told there is no such thing as an upper cervical specialist, any certified chiropractor could provide the treatment. I called the Ontario Chiropractic Association this morning (wasn’t able to until now because of holiday yesterday). The receptionist said that was a good question and had to ask. I spoke to two other people before I was told there is no such designation in Ontario, and I should just call around to find someone that does the treatment. I find it shocking.
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Postby DrKoontzDC » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:42 am

Kathryn333 wrote:After receiving your advice, I googled “upper cervical chiropractors” and came up with a name. I called and spoke to him. He’s listed his specialties on his own site, but there was no mention of upper cervical treatment, even though his name came up when I googled it. When I questioned him, he told me there was no such specialty, and any trained chiropractor could give upper cervical treatment. I’ve read your postings, Dr. Flanagan, and I understand how specialized the treatment is.


Hello Kathryn,
As much as it pains me to say this the chiropractor you spoke with was not being completely honest with you. He was definitely misleading you when he said there was "no such specialty". Even full spine chiropractors have their own specialties such as extremity adjusting (arms, legs, etc...), sports chiropractic, pediatrics.

Now while he didn't lie to you he did tell you a half truth. There are many different techniques in chiropractic separated in to 2 different categories, full spine and Upper Cervical. A full spine chiropractor will evaluate the whole spine to look for misalignment's which includes the Atlas & Axis. They will then adjust those misalignment's according to the technique or techniques they use. Some full spine chiropractors combine many different full spine techniques to suit their needs. That is not something that can necessarily be done with Upper Cervical techniques. So when he told you that "any trained chiropractor could give an upper cervical treatment" he was technically correct because full spine techniques do work with the atlas and axis just not in the same way as an Upper Cervical Chiropractor.

By bending the truth he was attempting to make himself look good and has obviously, and shamelessly, set his website up to draw visitors there by putting upper cervical somewhere on his site. However full spine chiropractors do not follow any of the same protocols as an Upper Cervical chiropractor. The x-rays they take are not done with the same specificity as an Upper Cervical chiropractor. That specificity is what sets Upper Cervical chiropractors apart from full spine chiropractors. It is why Upper Cervical chiropractors get the results they do on a consistent basis when full spine chiropractors do not. It is also a necessary and very important part due to the way Upper Cervical x-rays are measured and analyzed which correspond to how an Upper Cervical adjustment is given.

Each Upper Cervical technique has it's own set of protocols that are strictly followed and adhered to. Everything an Upper Cervical chiropractor does is Specific, from the x-rays to their analysis of those x-rays to the angle from which the adjustments are given, and the protocols used to determine whether or not an adjustment is needed. We take our work very seriously as it is not an easy thing to do which is why most choose not to do it.

This is not to say that full spine chiropractors do not help people because they can and do. What they are most efficient at helping people with is neck and back pain, headaches and extremity problems. But what you don't see them being able to do on a consistent basis is helping people with severe health problems like MS & Parkinson's for example. There is a use for every aspect of chiropractic if used appropriately at the right time and place.
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Postby uprightdoc » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:52 am

Kathryn, Dr. Woodfield of NUCCA personally recommende Dr. Vic Sondhi of Atlas Spinal Care. He is in Mississaqua. His phone number is 905-712-1956.

Dr. Woodfield expressed his regrets for the lack of certified upper cervical doctors in Canada. It is unfortunate at a time like this when they are sorely needed. If anyone else living in Canada needs a referral please let me know.

Kathryn, make sure the doctor knows as much about your case as I do if not more. He can contact me anytime and I would appreciate seeing your upper cervical x-rays. CurIous's idea of photographing the x-rays works well. The TV screen is better by far but the view box is fine. If the doctor is one of those savy high tech types like Dr. Koontz and his comrade Costumenational he will probably just digitize the x-rays and send them. Either way would be great.
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Postby uprightdoc » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:04 am

Amen to Dr. Koontz's remark.

There are definite recognized upper cervical methods based on specific x-rays and line analysis. There is nothing in full spine care that even remotely resembles specific upper cervical care at this time. There may be some interesting full spine options but no one has the research or methods behind them like upper cervical, especially for serious neurodegenerative conditions that many of you are dealing with. Upper cervical has specific protocols. It is also far safer for some of you with high risk factors. Some full spine methods should not be used at all.
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Postby Kathryn333 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:23 am

Dr. Flanagan, thank you so much. I have an appointment with Dr. Sondhi next Monday. He’s about 10 minutes from my house. I feel so grateful to be on the right track. Dr. Koontz, thank you for your postings and your interest. I will keep you posted.
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