CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:35 am

If the injury is twenty years old there is most likely significant degeneration. The x-rays willl show it. Unfortunately, doctors still don't see the connection between upper cervical dysfunction and degeneration (spondylosis) of the lower spine in neurodegenerative conditions such as MS. The upright cine CSF flow studies show the connection between spondylosis and obstruction to blood and CSF flow. You can't fix the problem if you don't know what is causing it.
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Re: Question about Atlas in MRI

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:40 am

frodo wrote:...My wife, MS patient, has never got her Atlas tested, but she has been tested for CCSVI and the result was negative. Therefore we would like to know if there is any kind of cervical misalignement. We have some MRI of the neck, taken for CCSVI, in which the cervical area appears quite well. Is it possible to use a MRI to diagnose an Atlas misalignement, and, would you be willing to take a look to that MRI? or could you redirect me to anybody that would do it?...


Hello Frodo,
In most cases I can get an idea of the condition of the cervical spine by looking at the venograms but they lack detail for bones and connective tissues. Let me know if you would like me to take a look at them and I will send you a PM with my email address.
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Re: Question about Atlas in MRI

Postby frodo » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:24 am

uprightdoc wrote:
frodo wrote:...My wife, MS patient, has never got her Atlas tested, but she has been tested for CCSVI and the result was negative. Therefore we would like to know if there is any kind of cervical misalignement. We have some MRI of the neck, taken for CCSVI, in which the cervical area appears quite well. Is it possible to use a MRI to diagnose an Atlas misalignement, and, would you be willing to take a look to that MRI? or could you redirect me to anybody that would do it?...


Hello Frodo,
In most cases I can get an idea of the condition of the cervical spine by looking at the venograms but they lack detail for bones and connective tissues. Let me know if you would like me to take a look at them and I will send you a PM with my email address.


Yes please. I would really appreciate if you could take a look to them. I have the MRI in a CD-ROM, therefore I would prefer to send it by normal post. Could you send me your address by PM? thanks.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:19 am

I just sent you a PM with my address. I will look at the scans on the CDs as soon as I get them.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:35 pm

dr. flanagan, this may not be the place to ask but gonna anyway. the study going on includes parkinson patients right? if so, after being scanned and adjusted what improvements have you seen? of course 1treatment compared to reg. adjusting can't tell the whole story but maybe a good start.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:24 am

So far the studies show improvements in blood and CSF flow. Turbulence is reduced or eliminated and laminar flow is restored. Malpositioning of the brain in the cranial vault such as a Chiari 1 type displacement, as well as displacement of the cord in the canal have also been corrected. What remains to be seen is how long the improvements are maintained, and how they correlate with improvements in the patients signs and symptoms. It's becoming clear that obstructions to blood and CSF flow play a significant role in neurodegenerative diseases. Now it's a question of what we can do to fix it and improve patient outcomes.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:17 pm

Hi Dr,
Can you explain this comment a bit more please. I am thinking that it could only be possible if there was problems with the cord drawing the brain down. My thoughts on the fluid flows pressuring the brain positioning and forcing the brain to exit/block as a secondary effect because the flow outlet is blocked by atlas alignment could also explain some of what is happening?

Quote,
" Malpositioning of the brain in the cranial vault such as a Chiari 1 type displacement, as well as displacement of the cord in the canal have also been corrected."

Next question, now that the specialist MRI is done with the extra coils, will standard Fonar Upright MRI's have new meaning because of the findings. Will the standard MRI be predictive of more than what was seen previously?

BTW haven't heard back from Dr Ierano, wondering if there is a problem when technology tests operators skills, it frightens some, and their words are not as loud any more.
Thanks,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:35 pm

Hi Nigel,
I was just about to head down to the river.

Diplacement of the brainstem or cerebellum into the foramen magnum or up against the base of the skull can be due to several causes. One cause is due to connective tissue connections between the upper cervical spine to the foramem magnum and meninges of the brain. It is my opinion that head tilts also cause Chiari 1 type displacement. It is also my opinion that the brain can sag and sink with age and declining circulation and aging meninges. I further suspect that certain types of exaggerated curves in the spine such as kyphosis and scoliosis can cause a downward displacement of the brainstem and cerebellum. Lastly, connective tissue laxity and subsequent joint instability due to trauma can cause kinematic type Chiari 1 type displacements with changes in posture and spinal movements. The cord can be displaced by spondylosis, scoliosis, kyphosis and altered fluid mechanics in the spinal canal, as well as connective tissue degeneration.

If I understand you correctly, the standard MRI might be more predictive if they use the same coils for the upper cervical spine but they wouldn't be as predictive as upright MRI.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:52 pm

Thanks Dr,
What I was thinking is that an Upright MRI on a Fonar machine, a standard machine with out the special coils for cervical testing. The standard machine imagining might be interpreted differently even though the imagine is not the same quality as the special cervical coil kit. Seeing positions of things and maybe Cine testing would be interpreted differently because of the learning given by the the study of Dr' Rosa and Damadian?
Any sort of news about the next study, what they are going to be looking for or at?

I am waiting to hear back from the Lead Radiographer in Sydney Aus, from the Fonar Upright team there today, about their thoughts on doing MRI and Cine testing with their machine on me. If they have knowledge about the Dr Rosa study and if there is any way they can image the AO Chiropractic before and after for Dr Ierano.
I am wanting to have a realistic option if I need retreating if Joelene and I are able to participate in Dr Rosa's study. After talking with HP and others I am aware that we will need to have AO treatment check ups etc.

Hope the river trip was a good one. Our water in winter is way too cold and even though I have the river on my boundary even my Golden Retriever doesn't swim in the winter. All day if she could in the summer though!

Regards,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:06 pm

From Western Imaging Group Australia;
"Hi Mr Wadham,

I have spoken to Dr Lee our Radiologist. He has advised me to inform you that he will need to get in contact with the USA where Dr Damadian has conducted that study in reference to your email enquiry.

We will email you once we have the appropriate information for you."

Steps, one at a Time,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:54 am

NZer1 wrote:...What I was thinking is that an Upright MRI on a Fonar machine, a standard machine with out the special coils for cervical testing. The standard machine imagining might be interpreted differently even though the imagine is not the same quality as the special cervical coil kit. Seeing positions of things and maybe Cine testing would be interpreted differently because of the learning given by the the study of Dr' Rosa and Damadian?
Any sort of news about the next study, what they are going to be looking for or at?

I am waiting to hear back from the Lead Radiographer in Sydney Aus, from the Fonar Upright team there today, about their thoughts on doing MRI and Cine testing with their machine on me. If they have knowledge about the Dr Rosa study and if there is any way they can image the AO Chiropractic before and after for Dr Ierano.
I am wanting to have a realistic option if I need retreating if Joelene and I are able to participate in Dr Rosa's study. After talking with HP and others I am aware that we will need to have AO treatment check ups etc.

Hope the river trip was a good one. Our water in winter is way too cold and even though I have the river on my boundary even my Golden Retriever doesn't swim in the winter. All day if she could in the summer though!...


The interpretations using standard upright MRI protocols would not be different. Dr. Rosa is using unique coils to image the craniocervical junction. They look like a cervical collar. He is also using particular slices to image the craniocervical junction. The equipment and his imaging method are unique. The radiology tech at the facility explained it best. He said that when he went to school he was shown how to image the brain and he was shown how to image the the cervical spine from C3 down. He said that he learned nothing about the upper cervical spine. It was basically included in the brain scan, which lacks the detail seen in Dr. Rosa's studies.

We have had some heavy rain storms so the river is a little cooler but still very nice.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:04 am

The link below is to a cine CSF flow study of MS patients sent to me Dr. Harshfield. The study showed altered CSF flow in MS patients. It was done using a regular supine MRI scanner. Upright scanners will show even more.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22733409
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:01 pm

Another very interesting question from another thread that got my attention, any thoughts on this Dr F?

I was diagnosed in April 2012 with a 6.5mm herniation after an unrelated MRI. A follow-up MRI wwo contrast in May confirmed the 6-6.5mm herniation but showed normal flow. However, in Feb 2004 I had a pituitary MRI that did NOT show a herniation or any other abnormalities.
In May of 2011, I was in a nasty train accident where I had among other things lateral whiplash. I also tore up my shoulder and damaged nerves in my biracial-plexus. I have numerous neurological issues now including numbness on my left side (face, neck, chest, arm, fingers) as well as left side neck spasms, hearing loss, throat/voice issues and dizziness. My doctors and I believe these are caused by nerve and muscle damage and not the Chiari.
That said, I have pretty clear evidence that the herniation was not present 8 years ago and the only trauma I have had was the train accident. Could this have cause the herniation? If so, does anyone know how?
http://www.chiarisupport.org/forum/topi ... hare_topic

Regards,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:03 pm

The answer is that trauma can cause a Chiari type malformation to manifest in people with prexisting conditons or in people who didn't have it before. In many case there is no actual malformation of the brain. Instead the brain is displaced in the cranial vault and comes in contact with bones that compress it. The displacement can be caused by ligamentous and myodural connections between the upper cervical spine and cord. Connective tissue tearing can also cause ligament laxity and joint instability that can lead to kinematic Chiari type displacements. Exaggerated curves in the spine and chronic head tilts can likewise cause displacement. The degree of displacement is irrelevant. What matters is whether or not it effects the brainstem, cerebellum, cord, blood or CSF flow. Some people have minimal displacement and major signs and symptoms. Some people have a large degree of displacement and no signs or symptoms.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:19 pm

Thanks Dr,
what's the prognosis?

**Is there ways to manage such a problem**,

I have the feeling it is more common that Dr's are aware of!

The chance of Anacroiditosis being a future problem seems to be immanent? The various cord damage attempting healing and attaching to the 'wrong' places?

Regards,
Nigel
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