CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:05 am

It is possible that some cases may be helped with upper cervical correction. It depends on the type of injury and extent of damage. Dr. Rosa has shown cases where the diplacement and descent of the brainstem are restored to normal position following correction. Certain types of scar tissue in the cord and arachnoiditis can be rehabilitated with deep heat physiotherapy such as diathermy, infrared or ultrasound in conjuction with long axis flexion-distraction tables.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:49 am

This just arrived in my emails and it sounds just like my friend;

Kate commented on CSF and Cerebellar Symptoms in Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and MS.

in response to uprightdoctor:


The cerebellum may be affected in Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis, Chiari malformations and Dandy-Walker syndrome due to obstruction of CSF flow in the foramen magnum and upper cervical spinal canal.


Hello Dr. F, I am a young woman with Chiari 1 for which I had decompression surgery (laminectomy only, my surgeon chose not to go through the dura) a year ago. My surgery was not successful, and my symptoms are worse than before my decompression. I believe that I have a problem with the dynamics of my CSF. I can actually feel this pressure change happening in my head. There is an obvious pressure shift when I change positions or bend over, accompanied by a strong throbbing sensation. In addition, I experience pressure that builds through the day, and relieves over night. This process happens every day, and leaves me debilitated from severe pressure by late evening, until such a time that I can be horizontal long enough to "reset" the high pressure. My current CINE flow MRI says I have no definite detectable CSF flow in the fourth ventricle or cerebral aqueduct, and that my fourth ventricle is effaced. I also have "minimal flow" to the optic tracts - which is perhaps a cause for the constant pressure in my eyes, and pain with eye movement? Also, I have recently developed several perineural cysts in the cervical spine area, (in addition to the thoracic, lumbar, and sacral perineural cysts I have) and an area of T2 weighted hyperintensity in the C2 vertebrae. Basically, I am a mess in there! I have constant pain and pressure...but even worse, I am starting to have very common MS symptoms, such as eye pain, intentional tremors, fatigue, and muscle spasticity. I am on a mission to find some treatment for my CSF abnormalities before it further damages my central nervous system. My neurosurgeon feels that my Chiari decompression was adequate, despite my abnormal CINE flow results. He does not want to do anything except treat me with gabapentin and pain medication. Of course, I do not find that acceptable - I want to solve the problem! I believe very strongly that a complicated relationship between my Chiari, and CSF flow are the root of my body's issues. Until I found this blog, I have had no validation of that suspicion. I thank you for writing this blog. Do you have any advice for me? I am willing to travel to a doctor who is knowledgeable about CSF dynamics and Chiari patients. Thank you so much for your time!

Interested to hear your thoughts Dr F,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:18 pm

hi dr. flanagan, i was wondering about this. as you know positioning has always been an issue with me. when i'm say at the computer for any length of time. after a while i can barely lift fingers arm wrist. i know my posture and body strength is a mess and i try to keep upright but can't do too good. my left hand and arm "the one that still works about 60 percent " will get ice cold. also the rest of my body weakens.--if i put my wheelchair back down flat and lay awhile it comes back to what it was.

i was wondering if i wore a soft collar to make sure at least my head stayed up better if that may help. more important-would it hurt anything? i'd think wearing it full time would make my neck muscles weaker and i don't want that. i know i could play with the idea and just try it--but thought i'd ask.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:15 pm

again hello dr. flanagan, question--in dr. rosa's study i know it shows on film the effect a AO adjustment has on the csf flow. does it show the effect on film it has on blood flow? i could only believe that it does but is that part of the study? if it isn't part of it is it in the future? both are so vital just wondering.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:18 am

Hi Dr, thanks Blossom for the good questions.

My question is a basic technical one.
Is it 'on film' the physical difference in the Atlas position before and after the AO treatment?

I am stuck on what is the AO treatment physically doing?

Does the Atlas get moved by the AO adjustment, or is it that the AO treatment 'prompts' the body to align or release misalignment?

I am not getting answers on this from you or other 'adjusters', is it my way of asking or that there is no 'proof' to support the physical change from Chiropractic methods in general.

With respect,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:54 am

blossom wrote:...as you know positioning has always been an issue with me. when i'm say at the computer for any length of time. after a while i can barely lift fingers arm wrist. i know my posture and body strength is a mess and i try to keep upright but can't do too good. my left hand and arm "the one that still works about 60 percent " will get ice cold. also the rest of my body weakens.--if i put my wheelchair back down flat and lay awhile it comes back to what it was.

i was wondering if i wore a soft collar to make sure at least my head stayed up better if that may help. more important-would it hurt anything? i'd think wearing it full time would make my neck muscles weaker and i don't want that. i know i could play with the idea and just try it...


It's a good idea an certainly worth a try. A soft collor won't hurt anything and won't weaken your neck muscles. It will just keep you from tipping your head to far foward for prolonged periods such as sitting at the computer.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:58 am

blossom wrote:...in dr. rosa's study i know it shows on film the effect a AO adjustment has on the csf flow. does it show the effect on film it has on blood flow? i could only believe that it does but is that part of the study? if it isn't part of it is it in the future? both are so vital just wondering.


It doesn't show details of blood vessels like an MRA or venogram but it shows blood vessels and flow to a certain degree. It's technically difficult from what I understand to capture arterial flow. Doppler is better for determing blood flow.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:05 am

NZer1 wrote:... Is it 'on film' the physical difference in the Atlas position before and after the AO treatment? ... Does the Atlas get moved by the AO adjustment, or is it that the AO treatment 'prompts' the body to align or release misalignment?...


The purpose of the adustment is to correct the misalignment. That requires moving the atlas. Some upper cervical chiropractors such as AO, NUCCA and others uses pre and post x-rays to check correction. NUCCA bases it certification of doctors on their ability to make change.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby justcallmebarry » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:38 pm

Uprightdoc,

Forgive me for being a bit dense or lazy even, but what does AO mean please
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby PointsNorth » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:18 pm

Hi barry,

AO is Atlas Orthagonal. AO chiros use an instrument to adjust your atlas.

PN
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Calcitriol+D3 2013-
Hurry up and wait.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby justcallmebarry » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:23 am

pointsnorth,

Thank u
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:29 am

Dr Flanagan I was wondering if the Vagus Nerve can be affected if one is out of alignment? Can the Atlas (if misaligned) pinch it?
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:16 am

Hi Dania,
The vagus nerve can be effected by atlas misalignments in several ways without direct contact. For example, one way is by increasing pressure acting on the jugular foramen outside the skull from the transverse process of atlas. Another way is by displacement of the brainstem inside the cranial vault that increases pressure on the jugular foramen. Cranial nerves 9 (glossopharyngeal) ,10 (vagus) and 11 (spinal accessory) travel together through the jugular foramen and should be checked for signs of irritation.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:38 pm

Some more news on CSF flow and MS,
Conclusion;
CSF flow dynamics are altered in MS patients. More severe clinical and MRI outcomes in RRMS and CIS patients relate to altered CSF flow and velocity measures.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22733409

Dr F have you meet Robert Zivadinov or talked with him or Dr Weinstock-Guttman?

Regards,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:37 am

No. I haven't met the doctors but I did read the study. It supports my theory about the role of obstructed venous blood and CSF flow in AD, PD and MS. The only downside is that they didn't do it upright.
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