CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:29 am

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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby SteveSnow » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:38 am

Thanks for the replies again. I have had contact back from Heidi and she is going to call my wife tomorrow for more info. I wanted to ask you also if you think that medication is right for this type of spasm and as well as Heidi, should we also still seek heat and massage therapy? Sorry for the million and one questions, but this is so complex! My wife also commented on an extremely swollen right foot that has not been a problem so far. Could this have a connection to everything else going on do you think? She is convinced this has sinister beginnings, ie neurological or infection etc. like has been suggested in the past. Do you think ther could be an underlying cause that needs further investigation? I know you cannot diagnose over the net, but the Drs. here do not seem to want to find out the source of this, and I want to know if you think I am justified in wanting more tests or should I just focus on the spasm. Thanks again!! Steve.
[cen]I have taken the liberty of setting up a live chat in the hope that people will come and chat with me about my wife's medical situation

http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=ThisIsMS[/cen]
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:15 am

Steve,
Start with the most obvious causes which are substantial and clearly demonstrated on images. I would expect an infection of the nervous or musculoskeletal system to have more systemic consequences and signs of infection. Heat and massage would be helpful. You can also try some muscle salves or ointments. There are many on the market. They all work well. I prefer deep tissue Shiatsu type massage. I used my hands as well as a heavy duty G5 massage unit. It got real deep and saved my hands. No matter what method they use, ask the therapist to go easy until the condition calms down. Also be careful of the position used to massage her back muscles. A table with a facial cutout should be used or the therapy done while seated. Your wife should not lie on her stomach with her head turned to one side or the other. Generally I was able to correct most cases of torticollis or tortipelvic conditions in a couple of visits. The problem is moving the patient around to do the exam and work on them. They are usually locked-up and unable to move well. I often included some additional visits to rehabilitate the underlying problems that caused the condition if there are any. I got a bad case of torticollis once from swimming in a very cold and rough water on a windy day in Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. There was no underlying condition, just cold achy muscles and joints caused by stupidity.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby SteveSnow » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:11 am

Hi again! My wife has spoken with Heidi and arranged a consultation in a few days. She has advised my wife not to treat the spasms so as not to antagonise the muscles further until she has seen her at least. Does anyone here have any words of encouragement about this form of Nucca treatment for her. She is feeling so low about this condition and no one seems able to convince her that any treatment will ever work. She has given in to it and it's breaking my heart to see her like this. Thanks Steve
[cen]I have taken the liberty of setting up a live chat in the hope that people will come and chat with me about my wife's medical situation

http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=ThisIsMS[/cen]
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby SteveSnow » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:29 am

Btw, can I ask if this short leg treatment was a standard procedure for minor scoliosis? Is rotating the pelvis a common treatment for this as I haven't read anywhere else about practitioners doing this? I seem to find that the prescribe heel lifts or exercise and massage. The osteopath never did any xrays or measurements, just went on what he saw when she laid on the couch. She is convinced that it was either her jaw not being aligned initially that allowed her get so bad or the fact that she has a hypermobility syndrome, she suspects EDS as she has many of the features. Should he have been more thorough with his initial examination of her and done more tests do you think? Was he treatment plan appropriate to her, should he have touched her pelvis, did he do the right side etc? He is blaming her body for this and not his adjustments. He has suggested a payment plan for further treating her, not that I would let him now, I am not impressed at all.
[cen]I have taken the liberty of setting up a live chat in the hope that people will come and chat with me about my wife's medical situation

http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=ThisIsMS[/cen]
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby SteveSnow » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:31 am

Btw, can I ask if this short leg treatment was a standard procedure for minor scoliosis? Is rotating the pelvis a common treatment for this as I haven't read anywhere else about practitioners doing this? I seem to find that they prescribe heel lifts or exercise and massage. The osteopath never did any xrays or measurements, just went on what he saw when she laid on the couch. She is convinced that it was either her jaw not being aligned initially that allowed her get so bad or the fact that she has a hypermobility syndrome, she suspects EDS as she has many of the features. Should he have been more thorough with his initial examination of her and done more tests do you think? Was the treatment plan appropriate to her, should he have touched her pelvis, did he do the right side etc? He is blaming her body for this and not his adjustments. He has suggested a payment plan for further treating her, not that I would let him now, I am not impressed at all.
[cen]I have taken the liberty of setting up a live chat in the hope that people will come and chat with me about my wife's medical situation

http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=ThisIsMS[/cen]
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:29 am

SteveSnow wrote:...Does anyone here have any words of encouragement about this form of Nucca treatment


NUCCA is a highly effective form of upper cervical correction that focuses solely on the upper cervical spine. As in most specific upper cervical methods, NUCCA doctors do not examine or treat the lower spine directly.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:59 am

SteveSnow wrote:...can I ask if this short leg treatment was a standard procedure for minor scoliosis? Is rotating the pelvis a common treatment for this as I haven't read anywhere else about practitioners doing this? I seem to find that they prescribe heel lifts or exercise and massage. The osteopath never did any xrays or measurements, just went on what he saw when she laid on the couch. She is convinced that it was either her jaw not being aligned initially that allowed her get so bad or the fact that she has a hypermobility syndrome, she suspects EDS as she has many of the features. Should he have been more thorough with his initial examination of her and done more tests do you think? Was the treatment plan appropriate to her, should he have touched her pelvis, did he do the right side etc? He is blaming her body for this and not his adjustments.


I always checked and adjusted the full spine and pelvis, especially in patients with scoliosis. I worked on the segments of the spine in prone, supine and side posture. I prefer using pelvic blocks to counterstrain pelvic obliquity. Your wife had a bad reaction to rough treatment. Blaming the jaw in light of everything else is preposterous. EDS is possible but you haven't provided any evidence. What is obvious is the degeneration and abnormal curves in the spine. The non-weight bearing hinge joints of the jaw have nothing to do with the compression deformation and stenosis seen in the weight bearing segments of the lower cervical and lumbar spine. Nor did the jaw joints cause the reversal in the cervical curve and most likely a scoliosis and pelvic obliquity. It defies basic physics and common sense.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby SteveSnow » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:29 am

Thanks again Dr. Flanagan. I certainly believe you have directed us to the right person. Dr. Grant told us of a website to go to: http://upcspine.com/ On reading this so many symptoms resemble my wife's complaints and we have emailed her this response. Do you think we are finally on the right track too to finding why it all happened?

To Dr Grant:
We most certainly think it has a lot, if not all to do with her atlas now. Our theory is that the dentist who was extremely rough doing a lower molar root canal first time around, pulled down so hard he literally dislodged her head. She commented to the dental assistant afterwards that she was exhausted from all the tugging and pulling and was told he had got a file stuck in her tooth. Unfortunately, when the injection wore off, she knew straight away something was wrong. Her teeth were hurting when she put them together and very sore. She put this down to him grinding some of her teeth down while he waited for the injection to numb. He had only fitted her with veneers 3 or 4 weeks previously, and she thought it was due to a change in her bite. She continued to have this pain and pain in her root canal still so she went back to him. After the second bout of root canal treatment, this is when it went haywire. She had no bite position whatsoever, and again he had been overly tugging and pulling for over an hour. She was in agony and nobody could find the cause. Then one night she tried desperately to realign it herself. She pushed her lower jaw forward and twisted her neck round at the same time, there was a loud crack but it worked. However by the next morning it had gone again and she only ever managed to do this successfully once more. After telling the various dental specialists this and that she felt it was a problem with her neck they just continued to dismiss her, telling her it was just spasm from keeping her mouth open too long and would heal. 5 months later it still hadn't and that's when she was recommended to seek an osteopath. He agreed with her that her atlas was off when treatment was going wrong but felt the main problem was at her pelvis, but said it wasn't by much and would be addressed later.


We feel that if she had known about Nucca then or upper cervical adjustments that probably would have corrected her dental distress properly. Now we believe each adjustment he made to her just allowed her head to be put more and more off balance until she went into the full blown spasms when he twisted her neck. He then refused to look at her atlas or touch her neck again. Does all this sound plausible to you?


We agree that Kay has most if not all the symptoms the guy mentioned on the CSpine website plus some. She does indeed walk sideways, she always says her left side is hanging back, she has terrible tinnitus and buzzing constantly and muscle twitching and tremors etc. It fits in to what you have shown us there and certainly seems to back it up nicely. However, we didn't realise it could be responsible for all of this, we thought there must be another reason too!


I pray she is not too far gone to be helped by you, her head literally hangs off by an inch or two and she has so much spasm all over. I am now totally convinced you are who I need to bring her to and not the spinal unit. I felt if I voiced this in an email, it would save valuable time at the appointment next week explaining, I hope you don't mind. Also can I just ask one more thing, sorry! We have looked into EDS and it certainly seems to fit with Kay. Easy bruising, very visible veins through the skin, 7/9 on the Beighton score, the initial scoliosis she had, bowel disorders, stretchy skin and so on, will this be a major factor to if she can improve? We are worried that her ligaments etc will have been permanently weakened and stretched with her moving so much. She has so many concerns and reasons for it not to help now and I'm trying to keep her positive. She already has an improved diet and is supplementing it with candida tablets, vitamin B12 and fish oil capsules etc. as Darren (neurological chiro) recommended, but this on its own has not helped her improve. Same with the Baclofen off the GP, no results. She has watched you tube and found that Montel Williams had this done and couldn't praise the improvements to his MS enough. So she believes in it, just not hopeful that she can be brought back. I also found this website below, do you agree with this too Heidi? Sorry to bother you again. Thanks so much and see you next Friday.


Steve
http://www.atlantotec.com/en/disorders/ ... h-grinding
[cen]I have taken the liberty of setting up a live chat in the hope that people will come and chat with me about my wife's medical situation

http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=ThisIsMS[/cen]
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:11 am

Some questions and answers that I put to Dr S on his site;

NZer1 wrote:
Another piece of news from FaceBook;
Jenna Mach
Hi Dr. Arata, I am sure you had a chance to see the video and know the theory of Atlas Orthognal; does this have a merit, sounds very convincing and very logical but we have been "showered" with so much logic but nothing seems to be "IT" and yet we go after all what has been served from the "MS ALMOST CURE” Menu. Would appreciate your input, Jenna.
Mike Arata;
Stylocervical compression identified at venography is the most common cause of lack of response with CCSVI treatment. Atlas alignment therapies such as NUCCA seem to relieve stylocervical compression. This leads to conversion of non-responders in most cases. This is the case even if both jugulars are occluded.
https://www.facebook.com/Dr.Arata

Thoughts?

Nigel
Dr S' reply;
Stylocervical compression is something that is more apparent on MRV than on catheter venography. when i look at these narrowings with IVUS many of them seem to be phasic. In other words rotation, flexion or extension of the neck allows the vein to take on a larger diameter with better flow.

Is this a normal physiological situation? Does relieving this narrowing result in sustained clinical improvements? Do they need treatment? Tough questions with unclear answers so far.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:40 am

Pronated feet (flat arches) are more likely to cause problems with posture that effect the head neck and well as the TMJ. The feet are weight bearing joints that carry the weight of the entire body. Shock absorbtion from the feet is transmitted to the entire body including the TMJ. In contrast, the TMJ is a non-weight bearing hinge joint related to the face. It is only indirectly related to the upper cervical spine and base of the skull due to its location. All joint motion casues stress on bones that leave behind ridges called bossing. The bossing caused by the TMJ muscles in humans is on the side of the skull over the parietal bones. The ridges are very slight and often barely noticeable. The muscles used in chewing also causes stress around the cheek bones and eye sockets, which likewise show bossing. The upper cervical spine is anatomically related to and directly connected to the base of the skull. The stress from the neck muscles are much larger than those of the jaw muscles and show up as nuchal lines on the rear of the skull. Putting a splint is similar to placing a shim under the skull, which can alter the mechanics of the upper cervical spine. The links below are to sites that link TMJ problems to the feet. Personally, I don't agree with either theory.

http://www.footlevelers.com/about/about-foot-levelers
http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=15192
http://lvnwell.com/Good_Foundation.html
http://www.thefamilychiropracticcenter.com/services/custom-orthotics/
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:27 am

I would say stylocervical compression is a rare cause of venous blockage comparatively speaking. In contrast, there is a multitude of common craniocervical junction malformations, misalignments and injuries that can cause compression of the accessory drainage system of the brain and CSF flow. They are also easy to visualize and demonstrate on x-rays and MRI.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:24 am

Here is an interesting study sent to me this morning by Dr. Harshfield that links MS to decreased CSF flow.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22733409

The most likely cause of disturbances in CSF flow in the brain is malformations, misalignments and injuries of the upper cervical spine and base of the skull. The lower spine can similarly cause disturbance in CSF flow in the spinal canal.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:19 am

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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby costumenastional » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:36 pm

Hello people! I can see the thread is always busy, my Dear Doctor Flanagan has always something interesting to say in order to help others and so on. It's all good. A true blessing I should say.
I m always around too. I can't just disappear since this is the place I gained my life back. And what a life...
Anyway, I m doing terrific, I m always working with Dr Michael Koontz and all in all, neurological problems are history for me. Except when I need an adjustment that is which is still an every three month routine or something like that.

Dear Doctor Flanagan, thought I 'd send you an email about this but on the other hand who knows, others might be interested. It has to do with nutrition but it has nothing to do with MS or any kind of disease on that matter.
As you may remember, I m lifting weights. I used to do it for years before I got sick and now, after you gave me my life back, I m back on track.
The thing is that this time things have gotten serious meaning that my body is adapting better than before for some reason. Lately, I m gaining muscle mass really fast and I m lifting more and more to the point I m surprised. Surely it has to do with uplifted mood up to a point and who knows what else.
So, I would like to hear from an expert (I know you know everything about diet too), what I should eat in order to keep building muscle without gaining too much fat.
For now, I don't eat white bread and sodas which for me is a real accomplishment. I gave up on coffee too since I must drink 3 litres of water per day so there is no time for coffee. I have also started eating breakfast (corn flakes). Last but not least, I take whey protein as a supplement post workout so my body can recuperate after an intense workout.

Dont get me wrong here. I dont expect you to plan a detailed diet for me. I just need you to throw a few ideas on the canvas and I think I ll finish the painting on my own. For example I was thinking chicken breast, brown rice, beef, black bread, vegetables and fruits (bananas), yogurt, eggs, tuna and...?
Also, how foods should be cooked?
Any kind of oil like olive oil?
I think you got the idea. I need the protein but I cant afford to eat trash. My body has to be transformed in some kind of machine inside out and I know you know the way to do it.

I really really hope I m not a total idiot over here. It is just that I thought something different wouldn't hurt. :geek:
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