CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:48 am

There are many good chiropractic methods, such as specific upper cervical, that make scientific sense. There are some that make no sense at all. Just like the famous and financially successful German physician Dr. Franz Mesmer and his multitude of patients, they are mesmerized.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQvLCUThR7A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SA-KEBxvtw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Mesmer
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:55 am

Hi Dr. Flanagan,

Sure hope you're enjoying the warm weather where you are--you left just in time to miss all the snow and cold!

A local chiro is advertising the DRX-9000, and my husband is thinking of giving it a try for neck pain due to central and foraminal stenosis. Should I attempt to talk him out of it? Thank you.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:08 am

Is there any neck exercises to hold the AO adjustment
or is there anything or just luck for it to hold
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:07 pm

Hi Dr. Flanagan and dania,

What do you think about this thread, "Alzheimer’s – tight neck muscles and the carotid artery" which discusses Active Isolated Stretching? Could this help hold AO adjustments? I originally posted the article because I thought it might apply to CCSVI and the IJVs, but dania's question made me think to post the link here, also:

chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic21677.html

Edit: fixed link.
Last edited by HappyPoet on Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:39 pm

Hi Pam,
It's hard to take life seriously sitting under a palm tree in shorts and a tee shirt to get out of the sun and heat in February. It's hard to get work done and I'm falling behind.

The DRG 9000 is simply a fancy old style traction table. Traction can be helpful for rehabilitation of the spine. Traction pulls along the long axis of the spine which stretches connective tissues to a certain degree but it isn't the best method for decompressing the foramen or rehabilitating the discs. The best way to open and decompress the foramen is with spinal flexion which standard traction doesn't do. Instead they adjust the elevation of the traction arm which is limited as it mostly raises the head and neck. The segments aren't isolated either. In flexion-distraction the segment to be worked on is isolated and blocked from moving by the doctors hand while the table distracts (traction) and flexes rhythmically. Lateral flexion, extension, rotation and circumduction can further be incorporated.

It's worth trying traction but I hope the doctor offers more than just that, such as a good exam to determine the cause of the problem. Traction is just a tool. I didn't use it on everyone. I had a large tool box and applied the best tool for the job.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:45 pm

I didn't find the link to isolated muscle stretching but again there is nothing special about stretching the cervical spine. Gently stretching the neck forward and back, leaning left and right and turning left and right is a good place to start. For weak patients with disabilities, light isometric resistance can be helpful as well. As far as neurodegenerative conditions are concerned, it's better to think in terms of a complete fitness program tailored to the patient's abilities and disabilities.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:40 pm

Sorry about the incorrect link, Dr. Flanagan. Here's the correct link, sry. I fixed it in my post above. chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic21677.html I wish I didn't find a complete fitness program so hard to start and maintain.

Thanks for your feedback about the DRX-9000 -- very much appreciated.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:14 pm

Active isolated stretching is just another variation of stretching and not really new. There have been similar variations of the stretch. In the office I preferred post isometric relaxation techniques (PIR) and proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation (PNF) type stretches. The hypothesis that stiff SCM and scalene neck muscles cause AD is silly. It also ignores the potential causes of the stiff muscles such as underlying orthopedic, neurological and rheumatological conditions.

http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=41025
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNF_stretching

My favorite daily stretches are my own versions of classic Chi Kung exercises called The Changing Fist, The Changing Palm and The Emperor's Brocade or Eight Treasures. There are many variations.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:21 pm

Thank you for the links, DrF.

Because of your comment about causation, I read the article again. I do agree with you that tight neck muscles don't cause AD--originally, I didn't think the article said they do cause AD, just that stretching tight muscles would help those with AD. Upon closer reading, though, near the end of the article, there is a confusing sentence that says tight muscles can cause the disease, but I wonder if that isn't a typo because the removal of one word changes the sentence to support what the rest of the article says.

Thank you again, DrF. Your opinions through the years have been extremely helpful in guiding me and many others. TiMS is very lucky to have this trusted thread.

Now I'm off to google The Changing Fist, The Changing Palm, The Emperor's Brocade, and Eight Treasures. :)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:26 pm

uprightdoc wrote:It's worth trying traction but I hope the doctor offers more than just that, such as a good exam to determine the cause of the problem. Traction is just a tool. I didn't use it on everyone. I had a large tool box and applied the best tool for the job.

Thanks for explaining about the DRX-9000 and its limitations. Now my husband knows what questions to ask. Hopefully this doc has a toolbox identical to yours. :)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:11 pm

The text below is from the article, Alzheimer’s disease treatment – tight neck muscles and the carotid artery.

"The neck muscles lie above the arteries that bring blood flow to the brain. The principal pathway of circulation to the brain are the carotid and vertebral arteries. The carotid artery delivers the majority of blood flow to the brain. And the carotid artery is directly underneath a major neck muscle: the sternocleidomastoid. A shortened sternocleidomastoid neck muscle is likely to be inflamed. Inflammation in the sternocleidomastoid muscle can place pressure onto the carotid artery, limiting circulation from reaching the brain."

"Another critical muscle group to correct are the scalene muscles of the neck. As the scalenes become inflexible, the head is pulled forward and the jaw drops downward. Circulation to the brain is upward travel from the heart. If the head juts forward, then posture is distorted. Compromised posture can cause twists and turns in the artery to the brain. Inflammation in the sternocleidomastoid and scalene muscles can cause blockages to blood flow in the carotid artery."

If the statement above was true then patients with spasmodic torticollis or cervical dystonia would suffer from ischemic strokes. Except in rare cases, the SCM and scalene muscles have very little impact on the relatively large and high pressure carotid arteries. The vertebral arteries are much more likely to be affected by neck muscle spasms and stiffness. Stiffness of the cervical spine in the elderly is more typically due to spondylosis than muscle spasms.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby HappyPoet » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:46 pm

Thank you for explaining further, DrF.
This topic reminds me of Rici who was a weightlifter who had very strong neck muscles that were thought to compress his IJVs and make his CCSVI procedure useless.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:36 am

Veins have weak walls and lower blood pressure, which make them more susceptible to compression than arteries.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:28 pm

Interesting article with some good pictures and thought starters ;)
‘The lymphatic system has been shown to develop earlier than that of the arachnoid villi and therefore appear to be a dominant CSF outflow route in the late fetal and early neonatal period. There is convincing evidence that the arachnoid villi system loses it efficiency with age, which can influence the total turnover rate of the CSF with possible neurodegenerative consequences.’
http://cranialintelligence.com/2013/02/ ... the-skull/

:)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:43 pm

Thanks Nigel,
It is well known that the arachnoid granulations develop in the first year of life. Prior to that the lymph system removes CSF from the brain and cord. The nose is the most important lymphatic route. I started my research looking at alternative pathways for CSF outflow, such as into the face by way of the ethmoid canal of the nose and the nearby foramen cecum that drains the superior sagittal sinus. The bulk of their location of the arachnoid granulations in the superior sagittal sinus at the top of the brain underscores their role in upright posture. In four legged mammals they are located lower down in the transverse sinuses. Although it can leak out through the nose and ears, from a practical clinical point of view the lymph system typically isn't very helpful at removing CSF during intracranial hypertension and strokes. Aging and dysfunction of the arachnoid granulations has always been considered a potential cause of hydrocephalus. The thickness of blood compared to CSF can block the arachnoid granulations following hemorrhagic strokes or prevent it from returning to normal. Neurosurgeons are now experimenting with shaking the head in different ways to mix blood and CSF for better flow through the subarachnoid space and into the arachnoid granulations following subarachnoid hemorrhages caused by traumatic brain injuries.
Last edited by uprightdoc on Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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