CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:21 am

Blossom,
I don't know anything about the ABC technique and the doctors website carries on with a lot of jibberish and no specifics about the technique. The postural analysis is good. The anterior to posterior adjustments are good and I frequently used them in practice. I don't buy into the occipital drop or push challenge signs and tests he uses. I do accept the the theory of adverse mechanical tension in the cord but they are typically associated with clinically recognizable signs and symptomes and don't explain all structural distortions. Structural distortions can also be caused by muscle weakness and imbalances as well as spondylosis and scoliosis. Adjustments can improve signs and symptoms associated with spondylosis and scoliosis but they can't change the underlying structural distortions.

Treating complex cases with neurodegenerative diseases requires a much more thorough investigation than simple structural analysis and approach such as the ABC technique. Treating MS requires an in-depth analysis of the patients complete case history, a thorough orthopedic and neurological exam, coupled with full spine x-rays, MRIs of the brain, cord and spine, and complete lab work. The devil is in the details. There are no short cuts.

The most logical approach to managing the spondylosis, kyphosis and osteophytes in your case Blossom is quality intermittent traction along with prepatory or follow-up physiotherapy to reduce inflammation and edema and to rehab tissues. The best type of traction is flexion-distraction with full ranges of motion. I also used hand traction in difficult cases with a table that pulled the patient away from me while I tractioned the head in various ranges of motion. I had two types and frequently used intersegmental traction on spondylosis patients as well.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:26 am

Nigel,
I usually start my diagnosis by asking the patient about their symptoms. I don't try to guess what their symptoms are based on indirect evidence. The evidence you presented may or may not be related to your symptoms. It is also helpful to see a patient before making a diagnosis so that you can check for physical signs that may explain the symptoms.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:55 pm

Thanks Dr, I guess this is where we are at in a way.
Patients would like to be fixed and Dr's have the task.
What can be done for a patient and how long is realistic for the process.
Finding the cause of the known or most problematic symptoms, labelling them and deciding on the processes of rehab.
How many dollars and how many years for the planning stage and how many of both $ and time for the healing phase?
How many red herrings on the journey, how many practitioners used in the processes, how much personal cost, how much financial cost and the toll it takes on the patient in so many ways.

Don't give up, the answers are often just past your finishing point!
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:29 am

Thought time again, end of the day, please excuse the presentation I am under the weather. Dr F a question please,

Thought is, if a person, an average person who has had contact with people from all over the World, is injured in a freak accident and they have spinal tissue damage which results with alignment problems, does that mean any and all infections that are in their system are able to 'breed' in the inflammation that occurs?

The story in your book sounds very much like this, where the outcome is dx-ed as MS soon after. My understanding of dx-ing MS is that it requires time. MS is not an instant outcome!

In that time period the injury causing infection and inflammation would spread to other regions, those regions would be likely to be the reflux regions of the drainage system of the brain. The spine and the brain are interconnected through many pathways, the CSF is a simple and accessible option.

Many Specialists through History have sort a connection to bacteria or viruses which are present in autopsy studies but the pathway has eluded the Specialists that links to MS and other degenerative diseases.

It is a challenge to see mechanical reasons for these de-generative dis-eases and not connect that with the outcomes of health imbalance, such as infections from bacteria and viruses.

I think that the work of people such as yourself, Dr Rosa and others needs to consider the possibility that the antagonist is present in the system and that the alignment issues that can be identified by technology (finally) is giving the pathway knowledge, rather than the cause at essence.

I'll stop my sermon now and rest,

:)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:23 am

Accidents and spinal tissue damage that result in alignment problems do not cause all infection in their system to breed in the inflammation that occurs. It is also important to note that having bacteria and viruses doesn't necessarily mean that the person is infected.

For most patients MS does take time to develop but the case I cover in my book developed signs and symptoms immediately after the car crash and they progressed rapidly over the next year. The spine is a fairly strong structure. Except for fractures and torn connective tissues, it degenerates slowly.

It's true many specialists since long before I started have been looking for infectious causes of neurodegenerative and autoimmune-inflammatory diseases. To date, no one has found a single causative antigen.

It is not a challenge for experts to understand the mechanical reasons for neurodegenerative diseases. Neurosurgeons have no problems understanding the role of hydrocephalus in neurodegenerative conditions in children or adults. They also understand how Chiari malformations and craniocervical junction abnormalities can compress the brainstem and block blood and CSF flow that can result in hydrocephalus. No one in neurology questions, the role of ischemia, strokes, the glutamate cascade and inflammation in neurodegenerative processes. What isn't clear is the role of the spine in causing chronic ischemia, edema and NPH that can lead to neurodegenerative diseases.

From what I have seen so far, most cases of AD, PD and MS are caused by problems related to structural and fluid mechanics. The rest are related to a host of toxins and antigens.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:23 am

The link below is to my latest post called Hydrofracking, Ventriculomegaly and Brain Atrophy. Blockage of blood and CSF flow in the cranial vault and spinal canal can cause destructive hydraulic effects on the brain and cord. Spondylosis, stenosis and scoliosis, including kyphosis effect blood and CSF flow in the cranial vault and spinal canal.

http://uprightdoctor.wordpress.com/
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:46 pm

Thanks Dr F, I firmly believe there is a layer of understanding emerging below the examples of thought you have listed above.

Have you read the 'The Heart Attach Germ by Dvonch' or any of the principals on the Beyond the Bandaid series of vids on fb?

The understandings that veins and arteries have spasms that disrupt flows is answering many questions from CCSVI PTA outcomes and I believe it will fill some knowledge gaps with your understandings of structural de-generation outcomes/symptoms over time.

:)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:32 pm

I haven't read "The Heart Attack Germ" by Dvonch, but I will as soon as my sunburn wears off and I get caught up from spring break. Heart and coronary artery disease based on bugs, and coronary and arterial muscle spasms are well known. Arterial spams occur in traumatic brain injuries and strokes. I am not familiar with venous spasms. Veins have very thin and weak muscle layers. The dural sinuses aren't veins. They are connective tissue tunnels formed from dura mater and lined with endothelium from veins. They have no muscle layer. They are extra strong and they don't spasm but they can get compressed. Vasospasms are just one cause of ischemia. Heart and vascular degeneration are other major cause of ischemia. Tunnel syndromes, such as stenosis, TOS and carpal tunnel syndromes are well known mechanical causes of ischemia. Ischemia and inflammation are major causes of neurodegeneration.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:51 pm

Nigel,
I read the website for "The Heart Attack Germ." I agree with the part about the role of inflammation in degenerative conditions. I also agree that bacteria and viruses can cause all the diseases mentioned but there are many other antigens and toxins. Autoimmune-inflammatory reactions to innoculations, such as Guillain-Barre syndrome and more recently marcophagic myositis are well known. Innoculations are further mixed with adjuvants to enhance their effect and preservatives that are know neurotoxins and antigens. Multivalent innoculations complicate matters by introducting multiple antigens. Complications can occur from cross reactions between antigens, as well as the adjuvants and preservatives. Most industrialized socities have high innoculaiton rates. Interestingly, they also have much higher autoimmune-inflammatory rates compared to third world countries. Some researchers attribute the higher rates to what they call the hygiene effect due to decreased exposure to antigens and more importantly, the elimination of natural immunological responses to antigens such as bacteria and viruses.

If what the doctor is saying is true about the prevalence of bacterial infections in common systemic illnesses and the only treatment is antibiotics then hundreds of millions more people need to be on antibiotics. The risks are high and the outcome could be catastrophic for such an approach to so many conditions. The multiple, high dosage and prolonged antibiotic treatment protocol may be a valid treatement for certain cases but it should be carefully tested first in light of all the current problems associated with over useage.

The link below is to a CDC report on the latest deadly antibiotic resistant bacteria.

http://www.cdc.gov/hai/organisms/cre/index.html
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Thanks Dr F,
The article shows just how adaptable bacteria can be in such a short moment in time, far faster than science can work.
So there is reason to be aware that microbial involvement in everything has to be concidered rather than discounted because science hasn't advanced enough to understand the full picture.

The video from Bec Mills which is downloadable at 'fairly' small cost is also very informative and a must see for the enquiring mind.
CONCEPT OF STEALTH INFECTIONS
Submitted by Bec Mills
As a Soft Tissue Therapist I treat varying musculoskeletal aches and pains that are commonly associated with muscle tightness and postural imbalances. However when the cause of symptoms are complicated or ‘unknown’ as commonly found with autoimmune conditions, it can be hard to find treatment that works. My interest in chronic illness stems from my father having Bipolar disorder and my grandmother passing with Alzheimer’s. This interest became my passion, after meeting a patient who had been successfully treated in the U.S for her chronic pain condition Fibromyalgia. The news gets better, because the evaluation and treatment this patient underwent is not common practice here in Australia, I had an excuse to travel to the U.S and meet with leading field experts to learn more.
According to Microbiologist Professor Garth Nicolson, founder of the Institute For Molecular Medicine, California U.S, stealth type bacterial infections can play a causal role in illnesses such as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Multiple Sclerosis, Motor Neurone Disease, Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, Arthritis, Autism and Lyme Disease.
In an interview, Dr Nicolson explains to me that chronic infections can lead to auto-immune problems, disorders involving the central and peripheral nervous systems and play havoc with nerve transmission. The infection process causes damage to cell membranes which leads to fatigue, loss of energy, loss of ability to perform functions, and can impair our ability to think, remember, understand and sleep.
“Stealth infections are in general bacterial infections but in some cases can be viral infections. They get inside cells and hide inside cells and can’t be seen by the immune system. The most common stealth infections we have studied and found amongst fatiguing and neurodegenerative diseases are Chlamydia pneumoniae, Mycoplasma and Borrelia burgdorferi. These intracellular bacteria have different life forms, some of them are free swimming, some of them are inside cells, some of them are metabolically active and some forms are metabolically inactive. When they are metabolically inactive they are very difficult to find. Their genetic signature is not as strong.”
According to Dr Nicolson, when these underlying infections are identified they can be treated with a number of therapies such as combination anti-biotic therapy and addressing dietary requirements to boost the immune system. “Stealth infections are best identified by molecular means, such as examining DNA. They aren’t picked up in routine lab tests.”
This important process is not part of orthodox screening and treatment for stealth infections is not traditionally included in protocol for those suffering with chronic illness.
http://beyondthebandaid.com.au/concept- ... nfections/

I purchased the downloadable copy and I am totally impressed by the work Bec Mills has done to put this together.
People would not know about the Stealth group of Bacterial Illnesses that are co-incidental with many, many diseases such as MS and Vascular Diseases of many labels.
So;
Haven't yet watched Invisibly ILL, A Stealth Reality? Read for yourself what the experts are saying about it http://beyondthebandaid.com.au/testimon ... bec-mills/

:)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:55 pm

Another CDC doc that is circulating our CPn community;
http://agriculturesociety.com/healthy-l ... -bacteria/

;)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:40 am

Dr F I have become aware that you have often sited warnings about ABx overuse and I assume you are concerned about the use and the cascade effects of ABx use.

The thing that has finally dawned on me is that you haven't said that there are pathogen/bacterial/viral Life threats that need treating.
And to extrapolate on that I haven't heard any alternatives if ABx are as risky in your belief as the pathogen.

I also understand that you have had reactions that could relate to endo-toxins and or pathogen die offs that create endo-toxins.

So I would like to hear your thinking on this group of Life risks and how you would manage the situation if, like me, you find that your health is severely compromised and progressing.

The reading I am doing on The Heart Attack Germ is very educational in special regard to cholesterol plaque and vascular spasm and how that is now viewed in de-generative disease, especially common in Alzheimer's and also it's link to a co-infection with CPn!

**Edited because I wrote Parkinson's by mistake, should have been Alzheimer's **

;)
Nigel
Last edited by NZer1 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:38 am

I never said that there weren't pathogen/bacterial/viral Life threats that need treating. I have mentioned many times that the treatment of infections and autoimmune-inflammatory conditions goes back thousands of years in TCM. The Yellow Emporer was about the treatment of infections.

I don't think I have stealth bacteria or endotoxin die off. I rarely get infections and when I do I get over them quickly. My blood work and urinalysis has always been normal with no signs of infection or inflammation even when I am inflammed. I do have antigenic reactions for sure including atopy that can easily be demonstrated. Atopy has nothing to do with bacteria and endotoxins. It includes a long list of allergens such as dust, mold and mildew, which make me sneeze. My father had wicked hay fever which is an autoimmune-inflammatory condition. Wool, cat and dog danders makes me itch and can raise a rash. Contact with antigens and even scratching can result in vasculitis. My immune system is over active.

I refer patients with serious infections to the appropriate specialists. As for chronic health issues, such as infestations, infections and autoimmune-inflammatory conditions, I start with a thorough case history and exam. The trick is finding the cause and the antigens. I treated many patients with chronic sinus, respiratory, colon and urinary tract type infections, as well as intestinal parasites using among other things almonds, figs and walnuts for example. Typically you have to work on the diet and provide supplemental support. The number of supplements and TCMs are far to numerous to list here. TCM has a long list of "fire purging" herbs. There is an equally long list of TCMs for strengthening the immune system that are generally listed under "tonics." They also have antihelmetics. I have had good success with my own condition using TCM and other supplements to control the immune system and inflammation.

I think helicobacter as a cause of PD is a very remote possibility. Boxers and football players get PD and it isn't due to bacteria. Farm workers with exposure to pesticides have a higher incidence of PD and it isn't due to bacteria. Alchohol and heavy metal poisoning are known causes of PD. People with illnesses that limit movement develop what TCM refers to as stagnation. Western doctors call it stasis. When blood and lymph circulation slow down waste products and pathogens accumulate.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:13 pm

Thanks Dr F.

Just to put some balance into your points above, the very thorough testing that was done on my self did not show any problems at all in any way.
The testing done by the standard Lab system did not show CPn antigens.
There were many times comments from my team of GP's over time (years) that I had a low grade infection happening when I made visits.
After testing by specialist Labs overseas and also the NAC self test for CPn I tested positive on both counts and now that I have begun the Protocol my progress is typical for patients with a CPn chronic infection with high bacterial load through many systems from CNS, muscle tissue and joints to lung and vision.

So the point is we can assume that the standard tests are giving us the correct impression or we can go by the reading of work by DR's and researchers who do not accept the mainstream outcomes.

I totally agree that the herbal approach is very important and that the lack of use of herbs is a likely reason for the dis-ease in Health today. The best Herbalists such as Stephen Buhner are also realists and have stated that there is often a need for ABx treatment when there are heavy infection loads particularly with intracellular bacteria infections. The initial use of multiple ABx therapy helps to break the strong hold of the infection and with time the herbal approach for Life is the maintainance required for wellness.

The volume of bacteria in our systems is very high and without it we die. We assume that we are everything self but for bacteria, which is showing to be wrong. We also unknowingly assume we are the same mass of atoms from one day to the next, another assumption that fails us.
About the only thing we retain or hold throughout life is memory, everything else is briefly with us for the journey of this Life time.

So balance is the task in Life and Medical Professionals are still at the early stages of learning about this. The 10 minute appointment with your Dr is not going to be much use at all, the 10 minute to the supposed 1 hour appointment with your Specialist is not any better.
To achieve an assessment is time consuming and as Dr F says it is the only way to achieve a picture of your health.
Sadly $ have more interest than well-being of individuals!

:)
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:22 am

Dr F my reading of the book 'The Heart Attack Germ' has provided some excellent research results and those results also lead into Alzheimers disease and co-incidence links to bacterial infections and damage being done by inflammation.
I can't stress more that I believe there is some very important learning available within this book and it's referencing.
http://www.theheartattackgerm.com/a%20short6.htm

Regards,
Nigel ;)
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