CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Wed May 15, 2013 12:03 am

uprightdoc wrote:
NZer1 wrote:... how can I prove by imagining if my Atlas is 'straight' or 'rotated' ?

Even though I have been adjusted by 'the best in the Land' here as well as many others I want to be able to 'see for myself' that it is correct as is said by the experts, rather than purely 'their impression'...


Specific Upper Cervical chiroprators prefer base posterior or vertex views to show rotational strains of the craniocervical junction. Dr. Rosa is currently using MRI, to show rotational strains.

Upper cervical problems aren't always associated with significant misalignments. As in Chiari Malformations, it isn't the degree of descent or the degree of misalignment that is relevant. What is relevant is whether or not is affecting nerves or blood and CSF flow. Costumenational's mother has a relatively minor misalignment in her upper cervical spine that I suspect is causing a relatively minor Chiari 0 or 1 at best, resulting in major progressive neurological problems. The design of her cranial vault predisposes her to problems due to decreased capacity of the posterior fossa. She may also have a slightly smaller foramen magnum. This means that she has less tolerance for upper cervical misalignments and Chiari malformations/CTE.


Hi Dr F,
is John the Chiro I use (trained at Sherman) who does their own on site Xrays going to be able to do these Xrays and dx atlas alignment, and more specifically can I trust an opinion?

The first set of Xrays he did he spoke of atlas misalignment but has only ever done standard drop table and the same approach from Graham Dobson but on the other side after looking at the same Xrays.

I am due for my weekly with John tomorrow and his last drop table adjustment gave him a fright and to me it has been an unusual week of reactions.

I still believe I have rotational problems even after years of work by John and Graham Dobson, I am of the opinion muscle testing and or palpating will not give indications.

Thanks,
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed May 15, 2013 2:35 am

Your welcome Blossom. Good luck and keep me posted.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Wed May 15, 2013 5:00 am

Nigel,
Most chiropractors don't use base posterior or vertex views for upper cervical rotation. As I recall, your chiropractor uses an open mouth odontoid view to determine rotation of C2. You can't accurately determine rotation by muscle tests and static palpation. That said, rotation may not be the issue. Even the best upper cervical doesn't work in every case and it may not be the right solution for you. The full spine flexion-distraction method is an excellent option for many cases of MS such as Dania and Blossom. Finding an a good FD table with head and tail sections, however, as well as a full spine doctor familiar with neurodegenerative conditions and the application of FD to the particular pathologies involved is far more difficult than trying to find a good upper cervical doctor. Most doctors use FD tables primarily to treat joint and disc disorders in the lower spine. The newer models are used similarly for the cervical spine. We still have a long way to go.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Sun May 19, 2013 10:12 am

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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Mon May 20, 2013 4:27 pm

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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby DrKoontzDC » Thu May 23, 2013 2:50 am

uprightdoc wrote:Nigel,
Most chiropractors don't use base posterior or vertex views for upper cervical rotation. As I recall, your chiropractor uses an open mouth odontoid view to determine rotation of C2. You can't accurately determine rotation by muscle tests and static palpation.


Just thought I'd chime in here to say hello and let you guys know I'm still watching. I'm very happy to see how things are going in here.

What I wanted to add is that most chiropractors aren't Upper Cervical chiropractors. I, as well as most of the Upper Cervical Chiropractors I know use base posterior or vertex views to establish rotation. Not only that, the Blair Upper Cervical technique uses the Base Posterior view to get the angles needed to shoot condylar views. The ability for me to see rotation using a Base Posterior is why I started sending my patients for a 3D CBCT here in Greece because the radiology clinic I was previously using didn't have the equipment necessary to take base posterior views with the patient in a neutral natural posture.

I also completely agree with Dr. Flanagan that it is impossible to accurately determine rotation by muscle tests and static palpation. Bony asymmetry is the rule, not the exception.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu May 23, 2013 6:34 am

It should likewise be pointed out that most upper cervical chiropractors don't directly work on the full spine and they don't take specific x-rays for pelvic misalignments (obliquity), which includes rotation. Correction of pelvic obliquity can correct many type of craniocervical problems. Base posterior and vertex views for specific degrees of rotation are only necessary if you use vector lines as a means to counter-strain and correct static strains (misaligments). Gonstead took a similar approach to the pelvis as upper cervical doctors do for the cervical spine. He used a stand up bucky with grid line to check the level of the pelvis, the height and width of the ilia and the size of the obturator foramen to determine specific pelvic misalignment. Patients, however, aren't static structures. Consequently, many chiroprators such as Dr. Jim Cox use a more dynamic approach.

While it is helpful to know the specific degrees of the static strain in the upper cervical and lower spine, it isn't necessary for effective correction and rehabilitation of the spine if you use good pre and post clinical checks to monitor progress. The problem is most chiropractors don't do good pre and post checks. Just banging away and hoping for the best isn't the best approach for difficult cases such as patient's with serious neurodegenerative conditions. Patients deserve better.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Thu May 23, 2013 12:58 pm

Quote
"Just banging away and hoping for the best isn't the best approach for difficult cases such as patient's with serious neurodegenerative conditions. Patients deserve better."

I love this comment, I have spent decades and dollars on spine health and this is what you get most of the time>

Money is spent by being on the premises and that doesn't relate to why you are there. If people paid for having their car sit at a Service Provider and only moments with the hood up would those customers be receiving service?

I fully understand why Chiropractors get a bad name, It's not just Chiropractors btw it's any 'Health Professional' who charges by the minute and not by results!

If the ethos that is growing in other fields such as sales service and product support were to become the primary reason for being able to charge for Medical care the World would change.

That statement when you let it sink in means that almost every other industry and business would also have to change.
The entire World would change!

No more profit before people, that would literally disappear!

Simple things like the crap that is going on with Monsanto and their attitude to Human Life and care of the Planet would change rapidly!

** Little side note, exercise is very important I am finding with the detox I am going through and it reminds me how vital it is to get circulation and flows happening especially in the mornings.
When I wake up I have electric tingling through my legs in particular when I move in any form, even giving attention to my legs and placing them sends tingles down my spine through my legs. I find that after using my tread mill for a 35 minute walk this stops, I am tingle free and during the day I find that I have to regularly go for walks around the section every 45 mins or so to keep things flowing and moving to stop the pain and weakness as well as the cognitive, memory issues, confusion and dumb thinking issues I get.
So is that CSF flow and general blood flows in the head, I think so! I can't perceive it being anything else because of the endo-toxin production I am going through on the Bacterial Protocol as well as the extra load that causes.
So how much does an average person or more importantly a PwMS need to be moving to flush the by products of everyday Life?
Is this why they say that exercise is improving symptoms in MS, in general, across the board!

And Life goes on, ;)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu May 23, 2013 3:09 pm

Nigel,
I couldn't agree more with everything you said.

Exercise is important for everyone, especially people with neurodegenerative conditions. Movement helps to maintain the health of musculoskeletal, neurological and other vital systems. It also helps moves blood, lymph and CSF more efficiently, which purges the system of wastes. If done moderately, it also decreases inflammation. Rest, sleep and mental relaxation are likewise important.

As far as chemical companies and "... their attitude toward Human Life and the care of the Planet..." are concerned, I am on a completely different page. We have a clover lawn and use green manure plants to fertilize our vegetable garden. We have been composting everything organic for many years. It's also our crow pile. They take what we don't want. We don't put in meat and skunks, racoons and other critters have never been a problem. We grow potatoes, carrots, onions, kale, rutabaga, squash, lettuce, tomatoes, peppers and more. I have six serviceberry trees that are very productive. I am currently putting in some more blue berry bushes, highbush cranberry bushes, and winterberry bushes. Some of the food is for us but I also plant healthy food for the local wildlife including the deer. We have rules. They are not allowed in the garden. We use a small amout of Millorganite around the perimeter. I have been experimenting with xeriscaping for years. It's attractive, entertaining and edible. I don't own or use gasoline engines to maintain my property or garden, which require little maintenance. It's amazing what can be done on a small scale. We don't need large scale agriculture. I believe we would all be better served and more secure as far as food is concerned with smaller more local farms, which will save on prohibitive shipping costs and pollution. It would be better for ecology and food diversity, as well as to prevent disastors due to massive crop failures in one location. It's time to rebalance ourselves with the earth and our environment.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Thu May 23, 2013 8:50 pm

uprightdoc wrote:Nigel,
I couldn't agree more with everything you said.

Exercise is important for everyone, especially people with neurodegenerative conditions. Movement helps to maintain the health of musculoskeletal, neurological and other vital systems. It also helps moves blood, lymph and CSF more efficiently, which purges the system of wastes. If done moderately, it also decreases inflammation. Rest, sleep and mental relaxation are likewise important.

As far as chemical companies and "... their attitude toward Human Life and the care of the Planet..." are concerned, I am on a completely different page. We have a clover lawn and use green manure plants to fertilize our vegetable garden. We have been composting everything organic for many years. It's also our crow pile. They take what we don't want. We don't put in meat and skunks, racoons and other critters have never been a problem. We grow potatoes, carrots, onions, kale, rutabaga, squash, lettuce, tomatoes, peppers and more. I have six serviceberry trees that are very productive. I am currently putting in some more blue berry bushes, highbush cranberry bushes, and winterberry bushes. Some of the food is for us but I also plant healthy food for the local wildlife including the deer. We have rules. They are not allowed in the garden. We use a small amout of Millorganite around the perimeter. I have been experimenting with xeriscaping for years. It's attractive, entertaining and edible. I don't own or use gasoline engines to maintain my property or garden, which require little maintenance. It's amazing what can be done on a small scale. We don't need large scale agriculture. I believe we would all be better served and more secure as far as food is concerned with smaller more local farms, which will save on prohibitive shipping costs and pollution. It would be better for ecology and food diversity, as well as to prevent disastors due to massive crop failures in one location. It's time to rebalance ourselves with the earth and our environment.


yes, every little bit helps and i always tried. growing up and through my life i never used chemicals in the garden or yard etc. where i live is fairly rural. lots of trees got a creek i love it. trying to relax get well eat as healthy as my situation allows.--then you got the knuckleheads that just gotta screw with your space. the guy above me burns plastic and god knows what which hovers my house and smell penetrates. have called and reported had them out here-so he does it at night. then here comes the state spraying the edge of the woods. right over the creek. so i had no spraying signs put up. i could go on and on. and to top off the coal mineing damage they are doing mountain top coal stripping but the marcillus gas drilling is putting the iceing on the cake. we've had farmers animals looseing their fur getting sick, people getting sick again on and on. our gov. from what i understand signed the rights to drill our state game lands. but, the adds on tv make it sound like they are saints and how good it is for the ecnomy and makeing us less dependent on other countries. they conveniently forget to tell people that 80 per cent of the gas is sold to india, china and i think japan. this is my understanding. sooo, greed and not giving a crap of the trickle down impact. i can't believe the changes that i've seen in my life time if things keep up this way-----

so, we that care try the best we can. and hope the knuckle heads either straighten up "or leave " they don't deserve this beautiful planet.

sorry for the rant but the inviroment and critters are a soft spot for me. and, sitting here in this shape "even though" i do what i can i just feel very vulnerable and hate hate hate what's going on in this world due to greedy selfish don't give a crap knuckleheads.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Thu May 23, 2013 10:04 pm

dr. flanagan, the last few mo. my feet and legs and even my body is retaining water. my feet look like ballons. had ekg last nov. kidney blood work was ok. i know the wheelchair is the biggest culprit. i get my legs up what i can. i'm low salt. i certainly drink a lot of water and the bladder works overtime. i do natural diuretics as celery even celery tea etc. relented and taking prescription diuretic. not helping. even when i get up in the morning they are not down much and in no time i'm puffing up. circumstances changed here so i can not use the exercycle as much because i need assistance. i can no longer get on a massage table to get lymph massage. what do you think of the chi machine? or do you have any suggestions? watching dr. cox the movement if i ever get somewhere it looks like it would help lymph too? i move as much as i can but things are getting harder.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Thu May 23, 2013 10:14 pm

dr. flanagan, did you ever hear of this and after watching if you have any thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHEPlszfo30

http://www.pr-inside.com/palmitoylethan ... 625602.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoRjnBsWHfo
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Fri May 24, 2013 8:07 am

blossom wrote: ... to top off the coal mineing damage they are doing mountain top coal stripping but the marcillus gas drilling is putting the iceing on the cake. we've had farmers animals looseing their fur getting sick, people getting sick again on and on. our gov. from what i understand signed the rights to drill our state game lands. but, the adds on tv make it sound like they are saints and how good it is for the ecnomy and makeing us less dependent on other countries. they conveniently forget to tell people that 80 per cent of the gas is sold to india, china and i think japan. this is my understanding. sooo, greed and not giving a crap of the trickle down impact. i can't believe the changes that i've seen in my life time if things keep up this way ...


Don't worry Blossom, the knuckleheads have done studies that show that the furless animals and flames you see coming out of your water faucets have nothing to do with the fracking. They are just coincidental findings. Studies also show that heavily governement subsidized nuclear energy is safe, clean and better for the environment. Tests have also shown that despite the eye witness accounts of deformed and dead sea life, the fish from the Gulf of Mexico are safe to eat and the recent spike in skin, respiratory and gastrointestinal illnesses is a figment of the local populations imagination. Most of them aren't educated enough to understand that scientific studies are more relevant than common sense. Studies by GE showed that they the toxic wastes they buried in Love Canal had nothing to do with the high incidence of local cancers. Locals figured it out long before studies confirmed a connection. Their experts also showed that the PCBs they dumped in the Hudson had no affect on the health of the river.

When Europeans arrived on this continent they found it inhabited by Indiginous people who lived here in relative balance with the earth for millenia. It took Europeans just several hundred years to pollute all our aquifers, streams, rivers and lakes, including the Great Lakes, which are the largest fresh water bodies in the world. We have even trashed our vast oceans (there are signs on Beaches now telling you when it is too contaminated to swim), not to mention the Gulf of Mexico and Chesapeak Bay, which used to be bountiful resources. At this rate, just imagine what the all the knuckleheads can accomplish in another hundred years or so.
Last edited by uprightdoc on Fri May 24, 2013 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Fri May 24, 2013 8:17 am

blossom wrote:...my feet and legs and even my body is retaining water. my feet look like ballons. had ekg last nov. kidney blood work was ok. i know the wheelchair is the biggest culprit. i get my legs up what i can. i'm low salt. i certainly drink a lot of water and the bladder works overtime. i do natural diuretics as celery even celery tea etc. relented and taking prescription diuretic. not helping. even when i get up in the morning they are not down much and in no time i'm puffing up. circumstances changed here so i can not use the exercycle as much because i need assistance. i can no longer get on a massage table to get lymph massage. what do you think of the chi machine? or do you have any suggestions?. ..


Blossom,
The Chi Machine looks like a glorified leg compression device. Ask your doctor about prescribing pneumatic compression equipment for home use to give it a try. You can also buy some reasonable leg and foot compression equipment for home use for less than the Chi massage unit.

There is no harm in trying the PEA for relief of pain and inflammation.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Tue May 28, 2013 1:23 pm

I have been so sick with a bladder infection with fever since last Tuesday evening. Spent yesterday in the emergency, where tests showed I do have the infection. What is interesting is that for the last 2 days I have not had a HOT head although running fever. What is also interesting is that a CBC was done and for years my RBC was always at the upper limit or just above it. Yesterday is WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RANGE! I have been taking Coumadin for over 15 years, 10mg/day to maintain my INR of 2.5. Yesterday my INR was 4.0. So I must lower my Coumadin probably to about 6mg/day. And all these changes after 7 spinal decompression treatments! My last treatment was last Tuesday. Because I have been in my recliner since last Tuesday night my spine has compressed again.
TY Dr Flanagan!!!!!
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