CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:29 am

uprightdoc wrote:The thalamus surrounds the thrid ventricle. The hypothalamus is on the lower front end of the thalamus. MRI is being used to study CSF flow in the third ventricle (thalamus). MS has been associated with enlargement of the third ventricle. The hypothalamus and pituitary are affected by surrounding CSF in the interchiasmatic and suprasellar cisterns. Because of its location beneath the brain, the pituitary is often affected in intracranial pressure problems. Upright MRI is relatively new and very few studies have been done.


I wonder if that would make the thalamus and Hypothalamus axis more susceptible to the 'Schelling' back jets then?

The other source of back jets that would be of interest is the C2 and general cervical region that are very common sights for lesions.

I wonder if these are directly caused by CSF back jets,compression and leakage?

The focus on blood circulation and back jets/reflux may be only part of the cause of lesions and BBB leakage, almost as though the CSF leaks outwards and blood leaks inward in different places?

The ET-1 cascade that is noted at lesion sites is almost a red flag to pin point the sites needing the most understanding and focus by technical methods like Cine Upright MRI, imo.

;)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:11 am

Although he did include CSF inversion flows in the cord as possible causes of strain on the dentate ligaments and subsequent lesions, Schelling's backjets for the most part referred to venous inversion flows not CSF. Faulty cranial hydrodynamcis associated with CSF inversion flows and turbulance in the cisterns is my theory. The thalamus is suceptible to blockage of CSF flow in the third ventricle resulting in ventriculomegaly. The hypothalamus and pituitary are susceptible to fautly CSF flow in the cisterns. The thalamus, hypothalamus and pituitary are also susceptible to chronic ischemia. In addition to violent inversion flows due to trauma as suggested by Schelling, I suspect that cervical lesions can also be caused by dissociation of CSF flow between the cranial vault and spinal compartment that results in increased pressure waves. Malformations, misalignments, spondylosis, stenosis and scoliosis also cause chronic ischemia and edema in the cord that can cause neurodegenerative conditions.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:25 am

uprightdoc wrote:Although he did include CSF inversion flows in the cord as possible causes of strain on the dentate ligaments and subsequent lesions, Schelling's backjets for the most part referred to venous inversion flows not CSF. Faulty cranial hydrodynamcis associated with CSF inversion flows and turbulance in the cisterns is my theory. The thalamus is suceptible to blockage of CSF flow in the third ventricle resulting in ventriculomegaly. The hypothalamus and pituitary are susceptible to fautly CSF flow in the cisterns. The thalamus, hypothalamus and pituitary are also susceptible to chronic ischemia. In addition to violent inversion flows due to trauma as suggested by Schelling, I suspect that cervical lesions can also be caused by dissociation of CSF flow between the cranial vault and spinal compartment that results in increased pressure waves. Malformations, misalignments, spondylosis, stenosis and scoliosis also cause chronic ischemia and edema in the cord that can cause neurodegenerative conditions.


Will the cine Upright MRI be able to 'see' and measure the flows of the skull to get the 'proof' needed to advance this?

I get the feeling that body etc movement is going to be the generator of the fluid compression waves though?

I am trying to remember but one or two (hundred) of my synapse are shorting, did you get to speak with Dr Haacke about any of this?

:)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:19 am

Cine upright MRI is still very new. Radiologists will have to come up with the right programs and protocols for accurate imaging of CSF flow in cisterns in the supine and upright positions in order to make measurements.

Bipedalism, body movement and Valsalva maneuvers increase CSF pressure waves.

I spoke to Dr. Haake about CSF flow but at the time he was focused on Zamboni's theory regarding the internal jugulars, not upright posture, the vertebral veins or CSF flow. Aside from myself, Dr. Noam Alperin was the first to consider and investigate the affect of upright posture on CSF flow and he got startover twenty years after I started. Dr. Rosa just started looking into faulty CSF flow. Aside from that, specific upper cervical theory and practice previously had nothing to do with CSF flow. Palmer originally maintained that misalignments compressed nerves not blood and CSF pathways. On the other hand, Dr. Donald Sutherland, an osteopath who started craniosacral therapy, started looking into looking into the role of mechanical strains on the reciprocal tension membrane of the dura on CSF flow in the early 1900s. He did not, however, consider the role of upright posture on the vertebral veins and cranial hydrodynamics. That's my theory.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:38 am

The link below is to one of Dr. Alperin's studies published in 2005 on upright posture and cranial hydrodynamics. Dr. Alperin was one of the first experts to recieve and review a copy of my book.

http://www.uic.edu/labs/pimlab/reprints/jmri_alperin_posture_neurophysiology.pdf
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:14 am

uprightdoc wrote:The link below is to one of Dr. Alperin's studies published in 2005 on upright posture and cranial hydrodynamics. Dr. Alperin was one of the first experts to recieve and review a copy of my book.

http://www.uic.edu/labs/pimlab/reprints/jmri_alperin_posture_neurophysiology.pdf

Cannot open the link.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:08 pm

Both your message link and my original link work for me.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:16 pm

Sorry cannot open both your links.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:15 pm

What's going on up there in Quebec? It must be a technological glitch with your service.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:35 pm

The links work at the bottom of the World too.

Dr F again the Upright MRI shows what has been lacking by assuming supine MRI tells the whole picture.
When you think about it many theories in Medicine have come about because of the snap shot in time observations.
Movement imaging is going to be the next step?
Maybe a combination/modification of the Zamboni collar principle?

To progress your insights will take a large push in the right direction, with a sharp stick, of some progressive thinkers that is why I think lighting a fire of interest under Dr Haacke is one option to get the show on the road.

Have you had the opportunity to talk with David Hubbard? He is another outside the box thinker, I like that in people. :)

It's sad that the Drug Industry is unravelling at the same time as the technology is developing to progress research away from old Neurological mindsets.
The change of fund source for research is going to occur at the 'wrong' point in time, but that is common in progress I guess.

Breakdown before breakthrough! That seems to be my pattern anyway.

;)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:30 am

Hey Nigel,
It's good to know the lights and links are working downstairs.

Motion does change things but it isn't necessary to know all the details of CSF flow to find effective treatment. New non-motion imaging programs and protocols are showing much more detail of difficult areas such as the cranial nerves. On the motions side, digital motion x-ray and upright MRI of upper cervical ligaments, as well as with flexion and extension views are revealing previously unseen ligament tears, degeneration and laxity causing joint instability.

I haven't spoken to Dr. Hubbard. While advanced imaging is important, and Dr. Haake's input would be fantastic, it isn't necessary to get the ball rolling with treating patients more effectively. We already have plenty of information already and we have the tools to correct and manage the problems. We just have to apply what we know clinically. The problem is that the doctors leading the latest research in blood and CSF flow are all newbies when it comes to cranial and spinal hydrodynamics so it's taking a long time for them to get up to speed.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:31 am

Dr Flanagan, I found someone to takes me to my appointments. A nurse who cannot practice in this province as she cannot speak french. Good for me, bad for her. I went yesterday. The chiro said I do not hold the adjustment like most people. I was wondering what is the best position for my neck in between appointments? Should I be stretching it by tilting my head down or tilting it back?
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Anonymoose » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:16 am

dania wrote:Dr Flanagan, I found someone to takes me to my appointments. A nurse who cannot practice in this province as she cannot speak french. Good for me, bad for her. I went yesterday. The chiro said I do not hold the adjustment like most people. I was wondering what is the best position for my neck in between appointments? Should I be stretching it by tilting my head down or tilting it back?

Sorry to barge in Dania and Dr. F. As I am currently doing AO I thought I'd share my docs orders. I am supposed to sleep with my head tilted back, looking at the headboard (really difficult at first but got easier after a week). After about three weeks, he started me on stretching exercises. Stretch chin to chest 7 times. Stretch head back 7 times. Stretch turning to right 7 times. Stretch turning to left seven times. Stretch tilting right 7 times. Stretch tilting left 7 times. I am supposed to do this twice a day in a sitting position. I don't know that it would be the same for everyone as we don't all have same misalignments. I don't hold my adjustments either. I wouldn't do them until your doctor tells you to (if he does).

Does that sound right? Lol. I've not experienced any improvements yet but I don't have a lot of symptoms other than a bit of hand numbness.

Dania...yay! So glad you found a way to continue treatment. Best of luck!
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:48 am

Hi Dania,
I am so glad to hear found someone to take you to the chiropractor.

Humans are designed for upright posture. In the upright position the head is balanced on top of the shoulder, which puts very little stress on the muscles and connective tissues. Aside from that, the exercises recommended by Anonymoose are good. Have your chiropractor show you some stretches.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:46 am

Anonymoose wrote:
dania wrote:Dr Flanagan, I found someone to takes me to my appointments. A nurse who cannot practice in this province as she cannot speak french. Good for me, bad for her. I went yesterday. The chiro said I do not hold the adjustment like most people. I was wondering what is the best position for my neck in between appointments? Should I be stretching it by tilting my head down or tilting it back?

Sorry to barge in Dania and Dr. F. As I am currently doing AO I thought I'd share my docs orders. I am supposed to sleep with my head tilted back, looking at the headboard (really difficult at first but got easier after a week). After about three weeks, he started me on stretching exercises. Stretch chin to chest 7 times. Stretch head back 7 times. Stretch turning to right 7 times. Stretch turning to left seven times. Stretch tilting right 7 times. Stretch tilting left 7 times. I am supposed to do this twice a day in a sitting position. I don't know that it would be the same for everyone as we don't all have same misalignments. I don't hold my adjustments either. I wouldn't do them until your doctor tells you to (if he does).

Does that sound right? Lol. I've not experienced any improvements yet but I don't have a lot of symptoms other than a bit of hand numbness.
Dania...yay! So glad you found a way to continue treatment. Best of luck!


Not sure what you meant stretch tilting left/right 7 times. Tilting neck, or body, tilting what exactly? Thanks for the info.
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