CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Anonymoose » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:25 am

Sorry about that. Does this make it more clear? It's the first image on the page.
http://www.howardnorthrup.com/massage_stretches.html

I held my full adjustment for the first time after doing those for a few days (started stretches after Mon adjustment, held part of adjustment, readjust Wed, stretched more, full adjustment held still today). I've gotten more exercises/stretches added to my program (basically adding torso to neck stretches). :D. I'm also to lie on my back on the floor with a rolled bath towel under (perpendicular to spine) my neck and lumbar for 10 minutes a day. My chiro is working on re-curving my neck (curve is mostly gone and I carry my head forward of the natural position).

Hope that helps!
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:48 am

Anonymoose wrote:Sorry about that. Does this make it more clear? It's the first image on the page.
http://www.howardnorthrup.com/massage_stretches.html

I held my full adjustment for the first time after doing those for a few days (started stretches after Mon adjustment, held part of adjustment, readjust Wed, stretched more, full adjustment held still today). I've gotten more exercises/stretches added to my program (basically adding torso to neck stretches). :D. I'm also to lie on my back on the floor with a rolled bath towel under (perpendicular to spine) my neck and lumbar for 10 minutes a day. My chiro is working on re-curving my neck (curve is mostly gone and I carry my head forward of the natural position).

Hope that helps!

TY
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:40 pm

Good link for simple stretches Anonymoose. It's good to see that the lights and links are working again in Quebec Dania.

I'm finishing up on a new page on the role of increased CSF volume in the cerebral aqueduct of the midbrain in nystagmus and other disorders of the eyes, as well as movement seen in MS and Parkinson's. The aqueduct connects the third ventricle to the fourth ventricle.

It's starting to feel like summer. It's time to get out the swim suit and head down to the river. It always warms up sooner than our little but deep local lake.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:48 pm

Interesting find this morning;

Hypothalamus
The role of the hypothalamus in regulation of homeostasis is essential for survival and reproduction of the species. The importance of this function is underscored by the structural organization and connectivity of the hypothalamus as almost every major subdivision of the neuraxis communicates with the hypothalamus and is subject to its influence. The hypothalamus is composed of three longitudinally oriented cell columns, or zones, that run the entire rostrocaudal length of the hypothalamus (Figure 1.2). These zones can be further subdivided into four nuclear groups, or regions, based on rostrocaudal position. To learn more about the hypothalamus and other neuroscience and neuroanatomy, visit Neuroscience Online at http://nba.uth.tmc.edu/neuroscience/index.htm
by: Neuroscience Online: An Electronic Textbook for the Neurosciences
Hypothalamus (2 photos)
Circuitry of the Hypothalamus
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:15 pm

Thanks Nigel. It's amazing the quality of the courses you can get online now. Our current system of education is "old school" and failing in a big way. Online education is the wave of the future.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:42 pm

uprightdoc wrote:Thanks Nigel. It's amazing the quality of the courses you can get online now. Our current system of education is "old school" and failing in a big way. Online education is the wave of the future.


i can understand to a point that our present dr.'s spent a lot of years and money getting educated and the last thing they want to hear is -- found this on the internet. but, when colleges are funded by drug co.'s let's say where old school teaching is very proftable but has yet to produce any real solution but they keep on hammering the same old same old--then maybe it's about time they get on the internet and get to sites like yours and sites that tells patient stories and testimonials. it would not take a rocket scientist to figure out how different we all are and the old theories etc. just don't fly. it's time the educated get educated and get back to when a person get's sick--you look at the whole body and try to correct if and when possble before a patient gets slammed with a diag. of something they put a name on but it's a name only. other than your work and others that are thinking on your line in 20 yrs. that i've had to an interest they've been spinning their wheels.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:02 am

Not too worry. Knuckleheads have solved the problem with the new affordable health care act. Things are about to ge a whole lot better, albeit less affordable. Soon we will see a change we can all believe in.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby blossom » Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:03 pm

uprightdoc wrote:Not too worry. Knuckleheads have solved the problem with the new affordable health care act. Things are about to ge a whole lot better, albeit less affordable. Soon we will see a change we can all believe in.


i'm feeling and i hope i'm wrong--that the golden yrs. for us baby boomers got very tarnished by all this. there's something like 10,000 boomers a day going on ss. they have to figure out what to do with us.--i think they did figure it out--they'll do as little as possible.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby vesta » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 am

A discussion developed recently on the “Dr. Sclafani answers some questions” CCSVI thread page 520 through 522 among the Interventional Radiologist Dr. Sclafani, his patient dania, and vesta concerning the suggestion by dania and vesta that MS patients be examined and treated for Cerebrospinal Flow (CSF) problems before considering Angioplasty. They both recommended Dr. Michael Flanagan as a source of information. The exchanges ended June 22, 2013 as follows.

Sclafani June 21
“dania
i think you are missing my point. Angio and IVUS are quite good at showing stenoses, regardless of where they are located. Significant stenoses of all causes, including those caused by bone spurs, misalignments and so forth are best seen by angio and ivus, not xrays which can only show the bones. In addition, my experience indicates to me that these upper lesions are just not that common. The overwhelming percentage of patients have no problems with the jugular vein except where it enters the chest. I am not arguing that these other things do not occur, it is just that they are not common. and even if present, they are almost always going to be accompanied by valvular stenosis of inferior jugular bulb. No point in treating upper lesions without also addressing the lower lesions. In addition, xrays and scans are not going to help find the azygos vein stenosis present in about half of patients nor in showing the compression of the left renal vein that is present in 25%.
So my clinical judgment is that angiography and IVUS are the key and the starting point. If they fix the problems then great, end of story. if they don't then i would consider these other options but would prefer more and better data than i have seen so far.
Thanks for the discussion, Dana. »

Dania to Dr S June 21
“I agree that angio and IVUS are excellent at showing stenoses. All I am trying to convey is that for some stenosis might be caused by a problem with CSF flow. I also think that, perhaps, if angio is performed when the patient's disabilities are minor and they keep themselves healthy and exercise regularly they are more likely to keep their improvements. For me I did very well for 18 years. No meds. But I use to go to the gym 5 times a week and weight train. Heavy weights. I could leg press 400 pounds. I was 5'6" weighed 120 lbs. It was when I stopped going to the gym that my condition declined.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2117722/
http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... rue#page-1 »

Vesta June 22
“Dr Sclafani:
I think you are missing our point. I believe it may be easier and less expensive to check out and treat CSF problems BEFORE angioplasty. See if such treatment works. A practical and financial question which may be medically advantageous as well. We have to live with and pay for the conséquences. This is not to doubt your dedication, expertise or competence. It's just survival.”

Dania June 22
“Thanks Vesta. That is my point of view, exactly. I guess I was not articulating it very well. It is not being argumentative. Just an opinion and my experiences. If my experiences helps anyone, so much the better. I completely drained my retirement funds. If I had known what is my particular problem I would have done everything differently.”

The entire discussion with relevant entries is shown on my site MS Cure Enigmas. net, Blog June 23, 2013 titled “Skeletal Diagnosis Before Angioplasty? An Exchange”

MS Cure Enigmas.net
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:52 am

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

I understand Dr. Scalfani's point as to why he prefers angio and IVUS for determing venous flow problems due to stenosis and faulty valves. Angio and IVUS are certainly much better at assesing those types of stenosis and blood flow problems. On the other hand, angio and IVUS are not the preferred method of diagnosing stenosis of the spine and obstruction to CSF flow as a result of increased venous pressure in the VVP due to spondylosis, stenosis and scoliosis of the spinal canal. Spondylosis, stenosis and scoliosis affect the design of the canal, which affects hydrodynamics and CSF flow in the cranial vault and spinal canal. The faulty hydrodynamics get worse during upright posture. X-rays and upright MRI are much better than angio or IVUS for determining these problems.

The other point is that angio and IVUS don't rule out potential structural causes of obstruction to venous flow into the VVP during upright posture. Venous blood preferentially drains into the VVP during upright posture, not the IJs. The upper cervical canal is a key point of obstruction. Angiograms also expose patinets to much more radiation than basic x-rays of the spine and MRI so it makes more sense to get them first to rule out and fix potential structural problems first, espeically if they obviate the need for further more invasive intervention. Treating underlying structural problems may also help improve the durability of venoplasty and stents when necessary. Certain structural problems may also help surgeons better choose between venoplasty versus shunts, such as in a case like CurIous associated with cervical kyphosis and deformation by the transverse process of atlas. I further suspect that venous insufficiency in the azygous and iliac veins can similarly be caused by structural issues sucha as spondylosis, stenosis and scoliosis of the lower spine due to their impact on myofascial tunnels and pressure gradients.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:57 am

I sent an email to my neurologist.

From: Jan Dania Wexler [janwex@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 2:19 PM
To: Jack Antel, Dr.
Subject: Plaques

Hi.

I was wondering on my MRI how many plaques and if they are on my spine or in my brain. Had a upright MRI and it showed CSF not returning correctly from my head to my body. And it also showed a spinal issue, severe Cervical Lordosis, probably the reason for impaired CSF flow. Recommended treatment is spinal decompression. Treatments are diminishing symptoms.

TY

From Dr Jack Antel
A scan at the MNI in 2007 describes lesions in the cervical spinal cord. Our Radiology department can prepare CDs of the scans (not sure if still available from 2007)

We have not used upright MRI protocols here and need to leave interpretation to others.

Jack Antel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:28 am

Structural issues in the spine that affect blood and CSF flow in the cranial vault and spinal canal are far more common and likely a cause of MS, as well as other neurodegenerative diseases than problems in the jugular veins or TMJ for that matter. It makes sense that lesions are often found in the area of spondylosis, bone spurs and stenosis. Spondylosis, stenosis and scoliosis alter the design of the tunnel of the spinal canal. When you change the dimensions and design of a tunnel or pipe you alter the flow of fluids through it. It's basic physics. Although he is a leading expert geotechical engineer and thinks in terms of stone and soil stability so much so that it takes time to sink in like water passing through thick clay, even, my tunneling expert brother gets it. I just have to speak slowly and repeat myself many times. He's been digging around NZ lately Nigel so you better stock up on some caulk and keep an eye out for sink holes.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby vesta » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:31 am

Hello uprightdoc:
What is the VVP? I get lost with all these initials. Thanks for your explanation. I obviously don't have the technical, medical background. But I've had to do my best to take care of myself and find solutions because those who should be thinking these things through are stuck with erroneous ideas. They have the power and authority which they seem to use more to suppress "radical thinking" than to treat patients effectively. I now think I inadvertently stopped my first major "attack" by getting a shiatsu massage, that the attack struck the spinal cord.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:53 am

Hello Vesta,
The VVP is the Vertebral Venous Plexus. Upright posture increases blood flow in and out of the brain which required modifications to the basic drainage system used by mammals. During upright posture, the human brain primarily switches over to the occipital marginal sinus, emissary and accessory venous system that drains into the VVP inside the spinal canal and around the spine. The accessory veins and outlets are the lowest drainage points in the posterior fossa.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby vesta » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:50 pm

Hello uprightdoc:
Thanks for the information you've posted today. I never had an MRI of my spine (they weren't available when I first fell ill in 1980) but I now believe my first attack struck the spine. Could you please give me an idea of what happened given the info I have.
This is an abbreviated version of the Pallis/Shiatsu blog on my site.

"My first known MS attack paralysed my right arm. My HMO Neurologist said that mine was
an unusual case and asked if I would come to be examined by a renowned British
Neurologist who would be giving a Master Class at the Hospital.
Dr. Christopher Pallis asked me to perform certain
manipulations with my arms and hands after which he asked me to remove my boots
to continue the examination of my legs and feet. He then drew on the board a
tube like structure, making a partial “bite” in it, explaining that this
was an unusual case since the lesions didn’t go all the way through as
evidenced by the fact that the right leg was not affected like the right
arm/hand. (I reflected that If they had, I would have been unable to walk.) I

Today, 33 years later, I can see the benefit. I am proud to have been examined by a world
famous Neurologist. And I’m convinced his analysis was
the right one. My Neurologist wrote that Dr. Pallis thought I had a spinal
cord lesion (which is what he must have drawn on the board.)

How is it that the “attack”didn’t “eat through”the entire spinal cord
which would have left me unable to walk? My answer. The Shiatsu massage of 38
days earlier. My notes show that when I went to the Emergency
room on May 2 my upper spine burned fiercely. After the massage on May 9 I felt
a total relief, even though the steam bath/sauna heat aggravated symptoms for a
few days. The massage must have stopped the blood reflux onto the spinal cord. (????) By May 14, even though I had undergone a CAT scan and EEG (which normally would have worsened my
condition) I was feeling much better.

The lesson of Chapter 3 is that I inadvertently saved my legs by
getting a Shiatsu massage. I believe any deep tissue massage would have done. If I had
avoided the heat of the steam bath and sauna, I could have avoided the temporary
nervous system aggravation. (All massages release toxins from the muscles so one generally is tired the following day.) My Neurologist was puzzled, he was getting ready to launch me into steroid
treatment, but then the whole process stopped. I now believe at the first onset of MS symptoms one should get a massage.
Why not? I can’t see any possible harm, and the benefits may be beyond anyone’s expectations."

How would you analyse these events and what would you consider the best treatment to stop an "attack" on the spinal cord?
Thanks alot.
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