CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:16 am

Dania,
Tell the neuro about your positional dizziness when you turn your head and the hard postsurgical scar tissue above the level of the thyroid cartilage that seems to make you weak. It may be affecting the spinal accessory nerve. I would test the SCM together as well as separately for left and right. Turning your head also deforms the thoracic outlet and may be impinging the nerves and blood vessels making you weak. Ask the neuro for his opinion about getting an ultrasound scan of the vertebral arteries and thoracic outlet. It simple, quick, cost effective and non-invasive. US can be done with and without rotation but adding rotation is controversial.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:47 am

Dr Flanagan, I forgot to mention that I had vein bypass surgery twice on my right side. That is the side the muscles are contracted the most. You can see them very clearly on my neck. So taut it is defined on my skin. My trapezius, deltoid, sternocleidomastoid on right side extremely contracted.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:40 pm

Dania,
Orthopedic and muscles tests for TOS and US are the best tests for now. In summary you want to discuss checking: 1) the vertebral arteries, especially in the third suboccipital segment for vertebral-basilar artery insufficiency, 2) thoracic outlet syndrome and 3) subclavian steal syndrome.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:01 pm

For those of you who prefer do-it-yourself health, or wish to start your own kinesiology practice and seminars and spare the hassle of studying anatomy, physiology and pathology etc., there is a system called Touch for Health. You can buy the book through Amazon or take online courses, get certified and become a teacher.

Touch for Health was founded by Dr. John Thie a well known chiropractor and international speaker who used Applied Kinesiology. He taught many masseuses, nurses, dentists, vets and patients. His son, who has a graduate degree in education, now runs the organization. Among other things, the Touch for Health System includes color therapy. It also includes Emotional Release Techniques. Emotional release techniques use visualization and tapping the head to heal people of their afflictions. It's so simple anyone can do it. They also offer courses on how to heal your pets - surrogates aren't included.

http://www.touch4health.com/techniques.html

Some doctors find that kinesiology muscles tests and using surrogates is too subjective for their scientific minds. Instead they prefer to use the occipital drop tests. Still others prefer to get their answers from tapping the body in various places and watching the feet for changes in leg length.

http://www.sackvillenaturopathic.com/#!occiptal-drop-reflex-testing/cax9
http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/activator.html
Last edited by uprightdoc on Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:30 pm

Dania,
I don't recall if yout told me, but aside from the upper cervical x-rays, do you have any x-rays of your thoracic spine, low back or pelvis? Do you have any MRI scans of your lower spine?
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:31 pm

Morning all,
Dr F my reason for putting up the link about Dr Klinghardt was purely for the statement and not for his skills and methods.
imo, if he has found through testing, and I must say LOUDLY that I don't have any idea what testing he used to make the statement that is on the link I gave, that there was a 100% correlation between Lyme disease and the labels of dx MS, ALS etc, then that was the purpose of my posting.

I totally agree that the esoteric methods used by many 'Dr's' are bogus, btw!

My point is as you are saying that symptoms are the issue and the name or label for the 'disease' is basically irrelevant.
If 'Dr's' were to do as you do and spend as much time as it takes rather than as much time as allotted then Patients will improve their Health!

:)
Nigel

Funny, I thought I had posted this, but instead I got talking with Mary my house keeper.
Anyway the success of Dr Klinghardt is also impressive and that must say something!
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:05 pm

uprightdoc wrote:Dania,
I don't recall if yout told me, but aside from the upper cervical x-rays, do you have any x-rays of your thoracic spine, low back or pelvis? Do you have any MRI scans of your lower spine?
No I do not. Nothing, What should I get done?
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:19 am

Nigel,
There are no tests that I know of that would show a clear correlation between Lyme diseases, MS and ALS. The comment below is from a testimonial on Dr. Klinghardts site regarding his method of examination using "autonomic response testing" (ART), which is simply repackaged and rebranded Applied Kinesiology. There are a slew of different types of kinesiology now. Everyone is an expert and you can be one too.

"...We got an appointment for 4 months later- and that is light speed. Our kid was so relaxed and comfortable with him. He did as the doctor wanted because he felt he can trust this doctor. With the patient now lying on the table, Dr. Klinghardt proceeded to conduct invisible orchestra, waving his hands here and there above his body. Every stroke was followed with medical diagnosis related to an organ or function. I sat stunned watching him in disbelief. I mean – this is it? But the more he “waved” the more shocked I was. We have done extensive testing – think in the 6 figures cost for our son. This guy not only confirmed what we knew from testing but also gave me much more detail explanation then any test we have done about my son’s present condition.

I had to ask: “ What are you doing?”

“ Autonomic Response Testing” ..."

http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/Articles/ART-Laws.html

Medical doctors have no training or expertise in any type of alternative health care diagnosis or treatment methods which is why they are easily duped and using bogus kinesiology muscle testing taken from chiropractors. Now we have dentists, psychiatrists, therapists, nurses and lay people using it. I started Applied Kinesiology around 1980. It's how I got started looking into CSF flow. There was a dentist in our group who used to check pinch strength in the hands to determine whether patients needed a splint and how much splint they needed. I have a great deal or expertise in AK and muscle testing. I have no interest in Corny Kinesiology.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:06 am

Dania,
Considering your history of lifting heavy weights and your current condition that confines you to sitting and using wheelchairs, I would want to see x-rays of your cervical and lumbopelvic spine. I suspect you have spondylosis that may be causative or contributory to your condition. I suspect you may have old athletic or other injuries. Furthermore, prolonged sitting, especially for patients in wheelchairs causes compensatory changes in the curves of the spine resulting adult acquired scoliosis. As I mention repeatedly in my book, as well as this site, my website and blog, Flanagan's theory is that in additon to malformations and misalignments of the cranial vault tissues and the base of the skull, which includes the upper cervical spine, spondylosis, stenosis and scoliosis of the lower spine are likewise causative or contributory to neurodegenerative conditions.

Speak to your chiropractor about getting x-rays of your spine. It's inexpensive, cost effective, minimally invasive, safe and highly informative. If they look suspicious, you could follow up with cervical, throacic and lumbar MRI scans to check for stenosis and impingement, as well as lower lesions. Spondylosis, scoliosis, excess lordosis and kyphosis can strain the cord and brain. They also obstruct hydrodynamics in the spinal canal.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:10 pm

uprightdoc wrote:Nigel,
There are no tests that I know of that would show a clear correlation between Lyme diseases, MS and ALS. The comment below is from a testimonial on Dr. Klinghardts site regarding his method of examination using "autonomic response testing" (ART), which is simply repackaged and rebranded Applied Kinesiology. There are a slew of different types of kinesiology now. Everyone is an expert and you can be one too.

"...We got an appointment for 4 months later- and that is light speed. Our kid was so relaxed and comfortable with him. He did as the doctor wanted because he felt he can trust this doctor. With the patient now lying on the table, Dr. Klinghardt proceeded to conduct invisible orchestra, waving his hands here and there above his body. Every stroke was followed with medical diagnosis related to an organ or function. I sat stunned watching him in disbelief. I mean – this is it? But the more he “waved” the more shocked I was. We have done extensive testing – think in the 6 figures cost for our son. This guy not only confirmed what we knew from testing but also gave me much more detail explanation then any test we have done about my son’s present condition.

I had to ask: “ What are you doing?”

“ Autonomic Response Testing” ..."

http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/Articles/ART-Laws.html

Medical doctors have no training or expertise in any type of alternative health care diagnosis or treatment methods which is why they are easily duped and using bogus kinesiology muscle testing taken from chiropractors. Now we have dentists, psychiatrists, therapists, nurses and lay people using it. I started Applied Kinesiology around 1980. It's how I got started looking into CSF flow. There was a dentist in our group who used to check pinch strength in the hands to determine whether patients needed a splint and how much splint they needed. I have a great deal or expertise in AK and muscle testing. I have no interest in Corny Kinesiology.


"Anyway the success of Dr Klinghardt is also impressive and that must say something!"
I think that the method of testing is always challenge-able in the same way that theories on MS are challenge-able.
If Dr Kinghardt has a track record of successful outcomes I would have to conclude he is on the right track.
If your track record is successful then I would also have to conclude you are on the right track.
If a Dr has poor outcomes then that has conclusions available as well.
I am interested in you rejection of success more than I am of your opinion of the method or the training to use the method.

;)
Nigel

ps an interesting find in my inbox this morning, could lead to more interest in CSF and it's content (porphyrins) ;) ;
Sodium accumulation is associated with disability and a progressive course in MS

This interesting study from the UK looked at sodium MR imaging in 27 healthy controls, 27 people with relapsing-remitting MS (RRMS), 23 people with secondary progressive MS (SPMS) and 20 people with primary progressive MS (PPMS). They hypothesised that in MS, there may be intracellular sodium accumulation due to neuroaxonal metabolic dysfunction and increased extracellular sodium due to expansion of the extracellular space as a result of neuroaxonal loss.

They found that cortical sodium concentrations were significantly higher in all sub-groups of MS compared with controls. They also found that deep grey and normal appearing white matter sodium concentrations were higher in primary and secondary-progressive MS. Sodium concentrations were higher in secondary-progressive compared with RRMS in cortical grey matter, normal appearing white matter and deep grey matter. Higher sodium concentrations were seen in T1 isointense and T1 hypointense lesions compared with normal appearing white matter. Also, higher sodium concentrations were seen in T1 hypointense lesions in SPMS and PPMS compared to RRMS.

The researchers observed independent associations of deep grey matter sodium concentration with EDSS and timed 25-foot walk speed as well as T1 lesion sodium concentration with the z-scores of the nine hole peg test and paced auditory serial test (PASAT). They suggest that the increased sodium concentration is likely to reflect neuroaxonal pathophysiology leading to clinical progression and disability progression.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23801742
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby MrSuccess » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:23 pm

mathmatics is at the heart of almost everything. MS included.

Of the next 100 people to be diagnosed as having MS .... SIX .... will have been subjected to some form of TRAUMA ..... prior ..... to being diagnosed as having MS.

In other words .... 6 %.

The national rate of MS in the population at large is ... LESS than 1 %.

Why are these numbers being ignored ?



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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:56 pm

MrSuccess wrote:mathmatics is at the heart of almost everything. MS included.

Of the next 100 people to be diagnosed as having MS .... SIX .... will have been subjected to some form of TRAUMA ..... prior ..... to being diagnosed as having MS.

In other words .... 6 %.

The national rate of MS in the population at large is ... LESS than 1 %.

Why are these numbers being ignored ?



MrSuccess


I hear what you are saying and I add that when the full quota of possibles is used to access the MS co-incidence spectrum it is 'Scientific' rather than Mathematics.
Mathematics is a part of Medical Sciences assessment system (Double blinded capture of set outcomes) but it is not the final conclusion, far from it as many assumptions are made every day in Medicine because of limited field of view!

;)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:02 pm

Nigel,
Dr. Harshfield sent the same or a similar study some time ago. My answer is that I suspect it may be due to ischemia causing failure of the sodium pumps. Failure of the sodium pumps is what initiates the glutamate cascade following a stroke.

I don't reject success. I question it, especially when it is based on such dubious clinical science, examination and treatment protocols.

The link below is to the U.S. Kinesiology Institute. They also claim to have great success with both people and pets as do all kinesiologists. I have my doubts. You can take the 4.5 hour study at home course and get continuing education credits for a full seven hours. That's a pretty good return on investment and great way to launch a career in health care and education. You don't need a medical doctor, chiropractor, therapist or a dentist to do color, triggter point or emotinal release therapies. You don't even need a vet to work on your pet. You can order chorella, blue green algae and the anodized oils online. Muscle tests will tell you which products to use and precisely how much.

If you want to experience some of the benefits try "zipping up" your conception vessel and then gently pull on your ears which will help you "tune in."

http://www.uskinesiology.com/clienttestimonials.htm
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:08 pm

I would say the number of MS cases associated with trauma is far greater than 6%. The problem is doctors don't take good case histories and fail to ask patients about significant trauma. They completely ignore even the most obvious cases related to trauma. The latest MRI scans are showing the torn ligaments and muscles and joint instability. They are even showing blockage to blood and CSF flow. The evidence will continue to mount as upright MRI takes over.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:20 pm

uprightdoc wrote:
If you want to experience some of the benefits try "zipping up" your conception vessel and then gently pull on your ears which will help you "tune in."



?
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