CCSVI and CCVBP

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:31 am

Oh, sorry doc....i can follow and understand most of the terms.....but sometimes i get a bit lost :mrgreen: .....kind of a connection problem :lol:
(and now the connection is made)
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:16 am

Hi Doc,

You said that my walking improvement just after being in the swimming pool is due to decompression of the spine. Can my physiotherapist do something that has the same effect?
I want to test this on Thursday; step on the walking belt, 'decompress', again on the belt...and see if it is better

Could also be a confirmation for me....and for the neuro 8)

Regards,

Robert
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:35 am

Hello Robert,
You could have the physiotherapist try some manual cervical and lumbar traction.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:56 am

Thx, i 'report' on friday :-D
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby dania » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:26 am

I slept, in my recliner, with a 16" swimming noodle between my knees for the last two night and the morning I was able to raise up from my recliner and take a small step with my right leg. Plus I am sitting straight and taller in my W/C, not leaning to the side, typing with all 10 fingers. No longer being pushed down to the floor from the contracted muscles. Who would of thought that keeping my knees spread would straighten my pelvis, my anterior rotated left leg, etc?????
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:42 am

Hi doc,

Well, 1st try; 10 secs and bad walk
Traction lumbar
2nd try 15secs and better walk
3rd try 15secs and somewhat worsened walk
4th try 10secs and bad walk

Difficult to judge if it did something ,have to repeat it more times

And...monday appointment with chiropractor.

Rgds,

Robert
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:42 am

:) NZ researchers show reduced grey matter blood flow can reveal reduced function before permanent tissue loss is visible and may lead to improved tools for prognosis and clinical trials.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?ter ... +sclerosis
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Grey matter (GM) pathology in multiple sclerosis (MS) is associated with progressive long-term disability. Detection of GM abnormalities in early MS may therefore be valuable in understanding and predicting the long-term course. However, structural MRI measures such as volume loss have shown only modest abnormalities in early relapsing-remitting MS (RRMS). We therefore investigated for evidence of abnormality in GM perfusion, consistent with metabolic dysfunction, in early RRMS.
METHODS:
25 RRMS patients with ≤5 years disease duration and 25 age-matched healthy controls underwent 3 Tesla MRI with a pseudo-continuous arterial spin labelling sequence to quantify GM perfusion and a volumetric T1-weighted sequence to measure GM volume. Neurological status was assessed in patients and neuropsychological evaluation undertaken in all subjects. Voxel-based analysis was used to compare regional GM perfusion and volume measures in patients and controls.
RESULTS:
There was reduced global GM perfusion in patients versus controls (50.6±5.8 mL/100 g/min vs 54.4±7.6 mL/100 g/min, p=0.04). Voxel-based analysis revealed extensive regions of decreased cortical and deep GM perfusion in MS subjects. Reduced perfusion was associated with impaired memory scores. There was no reduction in global or regional analysis of GM volume in patients versus controls.
CONCLUSIONS:
The decrease in GM perfusion in the absence of volume loss is consistent with neuronal metabolic dysfunction in early RRMS. Future studies in larger cohorts and longitudinal follow-up are needed to investigate the functional and prognostic significance of the early GM perfusion deficits observed.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:49 am

Robert,
Did the PT of your neuro check you for adverse mechanical tension in the cord such as L'Hermitte's, Brudzinski, Kernig or straight leg raising signs? Flexion of the head and neck or flexion of the thighs and pelvis increase tension on the cord. The Slump test uses straight leg raises while seated combined with flexing the body foward to test for tension.

What type of manual lumbar traction did the PT use?

What type of equipment and approach does the chiropractor use?
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:07 am

uprightdoc wrote:Robert,
Did the PT of your neuro check you for adverse mechanical tension in the cord such as L'Hermitte's, Brudzinski, Kernig or straight leg raising signs? Flexion of the head and neck or flexion of the thighs and pelvis increase tension on the cord. The Slump test uses straight leg raises while seated combined with flexing the body foward to test for tension.

What type of manual lumbar traction did the PT use?

What type of equipment and approach does the chiropractor use?


Hi doc,

It was just a small traction, that' 's what i understand. Now he will think about further approach, try to rule out the variables. I will tell him about your suggestions. But, he's on a 3 week holiday now.
Oct 22nd next appointment.

I'll see the Chiro for the 1st time on monday, then i'll know more :-D
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:37 am

Until the DC and PT "know" more they should start slow and easy. You should have pre and post therapy checks of the nerves, muscles and joints to test for effectiveness or irritation. There are other options to consider in your case as well such as combination ultrasound and electrical therapies. Anyone working on you should be fully aware of the pathology, especially your cervical spine and signs of possible myelopathy.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:41 am

Thanks for the post Nigel. It's an age old debate as to which comes first and foremost - the demyelination or degeneration of the nerve.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby NZer1 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:58 am

Hi Everyone,
Dr F due to some increases in spinal fatigue I have been more careful with my posture due to the increases in symptoms and problems when I slouch due to weaknesses.
This has made me aware how it has slowly effected my symptoms, as I slowly got worse posture, I got worse symptoms.
So it got me thinking about disc bulges and the visual differences that 'might' be seen between Upright MRI and laying flat out MRI.

** I assume the bulge will change shape with position (supine and upright) and that would have impacts on nerve and flow?

I have arranged a Lazyboy chair with lower back support in just the right places and I often have time out and meditate in this chair during the day and noticed an improvement in my symptoms straight away.
I am finding that as the CPn protocol is 'working' it is effecting areas of past tissue damage and I have days of fatigue and weakness as the areas die off and rehab afterwards. The key seems to be for me to be conscious of where in my body I need to nurture and care for the process so that I don't progress negatively symptom wise. Kind of like an out of the ashes regrowth situation.

:)
Nigel
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:26 am

Nigel,
Disc buldges can get worse during upright posture. How much they affect blood and CSF flow depends on the degree of stenosis they cause and the design of the spinal canal. Some people have tighter canals. The Lazyboy position decreases the compression loads on the spine similar to the so called zero gravity recliners.
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby Robnl » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:45 pm

Hi doc,

Had a bit weird weekend; normally saturday is my worst day.then it gets better as the week passes and then it starts over again.

But now, fridayevening was good, saturday also. Went swimming and getting out of the pool went somewhat better. Afterwards tired ofcourse, but that is normal.

Dont want to connect it to the traction yet, but it is uncommon.

Rgds,

Robert
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Re: CCSVI and CCVBP

Postby uprightdoc » Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:10 am

Hello Robert,
That's a good sign. You have degenerated buldging discs. I suspect that spondylosis and stenosis of the spinal canal such as you have play a significant role in the cause of MS. Spondylosis and stenosis can also occur as a co-morbidity that compounds the condition. In either case, the traction is good for you. It will slow down the progression of neurological signs and symptoms and help to keep the cartilage from degenerating further and affecting neighboring segments. It may even help to restore some strength.
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