Does anyone take a supplement to improve circulation? Did ..

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Does anyone take a supplement to improve circulation? Did ..

Postby adamt » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:12 am

.. your mobility improve?

I have come across this Gingko combination supplement that is meant to improve circulation:

http://www.zipvit.com/cgi-bin/popupprod ... 20Sterling

An ideal product for maintaining circulation, particularly the extremities, and the brain. The warming properties of ginger and cinnamon combined with ginkgo biloba, help stimulate and kick start the circulation.



Theres also this Gingko combination:
http://www.zipvit.com/cgi-bin/popupprod ... 20Sterling


Which oine is the better supplement?


Or could this be in anyway be bad for CCSVI patients?

- i have IJV mild stenosis, May Thurner and poorly developed Lumbar veins
(think i have restenosed IJVs, but havent had the MT or lumbar veins treated yet)

thanks
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Postby esta » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:14 am

hi adamt
i know ginkobiloba and bloodthinners are bad together . i saw it on tv as a warning by a dr.
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Postby adamt » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:38 pm

thanks for sharing i take 75mg Aspirin daily for the next 4 months,

do you think it would be better to take the Ginkgo combination tablet instead of the 75mg aspirin?
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:34 pm

gingko really helped my blood flow if perception rather than scientific measurability matters.

i found i had way better cognitive function eg could keep track of a train of thought so much better. before that i had not known what i was missing.

i am not a ccsvi case and do not take any blood thinners so have not considered conflicts.
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Postby NotFound » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:59 pm

I take 500mg Niacin daily on an empty stomach with Vit C (could be any acid) to produce a strong flush.

For about 20 min a day (while the flush lasts) I feel almost normal. I think I can even pretend to run during that time (normally walk with a cane).

Do not see effects past that though.
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Postby David1949 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:57 pm

One caution on the niacin flush; It may feel like your skin is on fire. The first time I tried it I had to jump into a cold shower until the sensation subsided. I would suggest trying a very low dose the first time, and then gradually work up to a higher dose if you think it's helping. Personally I didn't feel any benefit from it.
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Postby silverbirch » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:47 pm

I take 75 of asprin daily - i put myself on this upon reading Dr z's theory 10 months ago - 5 months after my MS DX I would like to say by going on asprin it stoped my left cold foot - a bit of a bonus

I had procedure , asked Surgeon could I stay on Asprin hes reply their was no need to - it wont do you any harm and may do you some good ....
I never told him I was takeing ginko

Ive not taken any DMD and nor am I on any other meds. RR MS
2 months ago - CCSVI LIJV 60/70% stenosied ballooning( cleared 4 collaterals)

I do have low blood pressure all my life its never caused me any problems

Ive stayed on it along with my daily 120 of ginko at this point Im thinking of dropping one my gut says the asprin based on liberation and Ive had a two unexplained brusies . this I believe is a result of Asprin

Any suggestions from the forum ?? Jimmylegs I would value your input
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Postby concerned » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:16 pm

I've read in scientific american that ginko has about the same neurological effect as eating a chocolate bar... just some food for thought.
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Postby NotFound » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:22 pm

David1949 wrote:One caution on the niacin flush; It may feel like your skin is on fire. The first time I tried it I had to jump into a cold shower until the sensation subsided. I would suggest trying a very low dose the first time, and then gradually work up to a higher dose if you think it's helping.


True. Unlike majority, I love the feeling.
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Re: Does anyone take a supplement to improve circulation?

Postby NHE » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:31 am

concerned wrote:I've read in scientific american that ginko has about the same neurological effect as eating a chocolate bar... just some food for thought.


I'm not sure what your point is here. Chocolate, especially dark chocolate, is good stuff (in moderation). If your point is that chocolate is equivalent to placebo, then eat one of these bars and tell me if you don't feel something. Chocolate contains methylxanthines, both caffiene and theobromine. Just search PubMed for theobromine. There are just over 4600 papers listed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15549276

Results: Identical improvements on the mood construct "energetic arousal" and cognitive function were found for cocoa powder and the caffeine+theobromine combination versus placebo.

Conclusions: A normal portion of chocolate exhibits psychopharmacological activity. The identical profile of effects exerted by cocoa powder and its methylxanthine constituents shows this activity to be confined to the combination of caffeine and theobromine.


While the above abstract does not distinguish between theobromine and caffeine, I certainly feel different after consuming a small portion of dark chocolate as compared to my caffeinated green tea.

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Re: Does anyone take a supplement to improve circulation?

Postby concerned » Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:22 am

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Postby eve » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:06 am

I take both Niacin and low dose aspirin since january and I have inproved a great deal, most remarkable is the fact that I can move all my toes again which I had not for 8 years. But also sighting, L'hermitte, cognitive, bladder etc improved.

I also do advice a very slow build up on Niacin as the flush can be real intens even at 100mg or less when you just start.

BTW, aspirin will lessen the flush if taken 20-30 minutes before the Niacin. Personally the flush is what I aim at (as your veins get dilated when flushing) so I always take my aspirin after the Niacin.
dx 2002,RRMS,  suspected begin of MS 1978 (age 10)
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Postby silverbirch » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:51 am

eve wrote:I take both Niacin .


Can some one please explain Niacin , its purpose and is it a perscribed medication

I have seen it talked about from within the MS threads in the forum and would like to know what it is

Kind regards
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:39 pm

silverbirch, it's up to you whether you dump aspirin or ginkgo. if you have unexplained bruising it might make a good experiment to stop one or the other and see if the problem resolves itself.

the scientific debate:

ginkgo+aspirin's bad, mkay...

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/a ... 1/art00005
Potential Interactions between Herbal Medicines and Conventional Drug Therapies Used by Older Adults Attending a Memory Clinic
The most common potential herb-drug interaction was between ginkgo and aspirin.


http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE ... 4103361518
Spontaneous Hyphema Associated with Ingestion of Ginkgo biloba Extract
A 70-year-old man presented after two days of recurrent blurred vision in the right eye, with each episode lasting 15 minutes, during which he could perceive a red discoloration through his cornea. One week earlier he had begun twice-daily ingestion of a Ginkoba tablet from his health-food store. Each tablet contained 40 mg of concentrated (50:1) extract of the G. biloba tree. The patient's only other medication was aspirin (one 325-mg tablet daily), taken for three years after his coronary-artery bypass surgery. There was no history of eye trauma, ischemia, or vascular occlusion...The patient stopped taking the ginkgo extract but continued to take daily aspirin, and there was no recurrence of bleeding over a three-month follow-up period.


on the other hand...

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 8/abstract
Potential interaction of Ginkgo biloba leaf with antiplatelet or anticoagulant drugs: What is the evidence?
However, there is scant information from case reports or controlled trials to support the suggestion that Ginkgo potentiates the effects of anticoagulant or antiplatelet drugs. Such high-level safety concerns for this herb are deemed to be unsupported by the currently available evidence.


also, niacin is vitamin b3. usually in b-complex it is modified to niacinamide so that there is no flush reaction. straight niacin provides the flush reaction. niacin is a big part of the klenner protocol of which i am a fan in a limited way (see related signature link - the townsend one - below for more details)

hope that helps!

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Postby eve » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:24 am

Hi silverbirch,

Like Jimmylegs already said - Niacine is vitamin B3. It has loads of good qualities for veins and arteries, it cuts down bad cholesterol and ups the good one, prevents the buil up of plaques and even might reverse formed build-up, and as mentioned, when you have the flush, even the littlest of veins will dilate up to 3-4 times and it makes your blood rush through your body for about 20 minutes. There are ways to control the flush, by taking Niacin after a meal or having a cold drink at hand if the flush is heavy. i take it on an empty stomach but only since a few months.

The first time I had the flush, you could literally see all my little veins pop open! I was always very pale (in school my nickname was 'return of the living death' :roll: :lol: ) but since I started flushing I have a healthy pink skin tone and a blush on my cheeks. I never, ever had that in my entire life!

I find that the Niacin helped a lot but it's the combination with aspirin that made it work for me. recently I had to stop the aspirin for a while (as I am being tested for hughes/aps) and my tiredness returned quite a bit.

Together they really improved my quality of life, for instance I went backpacking with my teenage son in Malaysia this summer. I could not have done that a year ago.

On the dutch ms forum we have several people who take Niacin and aspirin and most have improvements.
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