MrSuccess wrote:
marc - I was hoping someone would condense the ECTRIMS presentations
to a more understandable state ..... so the great unwashed public .... can understand what in hell they said .
Can you direct me specifically to where Dr. Zivadov say's he is not sure of the MS - CCSVI connection . I want to read that myself.
And as for the 25% of healthy test subjects having stenosis' ...... but not MS ......... I say this :
1. Healthy people DO NOT have blocked veins nor arteries .
2. If I was one of the so-called healthy test subjects - the 25% ers - that
have restricted flow in my veins ...... but demonstrate zero symptoms
of MS ........ KNOWING that pwMS have restricted veins ......
I would be wrought with concern that this condition may develop into
MS ..... tomorrow ........ and preventitive procedures are denied me.
3. As in your situation ...... it is my gut instinct that restricted veins
are as a result of the surrounding tissue condensing the vein.
such as inflamed tissue expanding --- virus ? -- swelling from injury
or trauma . It could be a bone has been moved . A pinch point.
Or all of the above
4. Mechanically speaking ..... if a soft round tube is flatened .... you can
produce what is called being '' wrung together'' .
This mechanical condition is amazingly strong .
Perhaps Angio is required to pry the vein open .... as the blood
pressure is no match for the strength of the wrung together vein.
5. things are getting mighty interesting .........
Mr. Success
success-several of the Zivadinov abstracts point to his finding that CCSVI may not be a causative factor in MS, and I link to these abstracts in my post. The first of these is the study in which he found that the severity of CCSVI abnormalities increases with the severity of the disease. This would tend to indicate that some unknown disease process is producing both the vascular and the neurologic abnormalities found in these patients.
It could be that vascular abnormalities are responsible for the concurrent neurologic damage, but there is also the possibility that some other mechanism could be driving the increase in vascular problems seen in more severe MS patients. Another of his studies looked at a gene factor with a known association to MS, and compared it to the incidence of CCSVI in MS patients. The results were equivocal, showing that CCSVI may be a risk factor in developing MS, or maybe a result of the disease itself. Yet another study looked at MS patients that presented with CCSVI versus MS patients that were free from vascular abnormalities, and found that those with CCSVI tended to have more aggressive disease, and higher levels of disability.
Because I was concerned about misstating Dr. Zivadinov's conclusions, I went through some of my contacts BNAC and had the good Dr. look over the paragraphs I had written about his research. He made a few very minor changes, but basically okayed what I had written as is. So, Dr. Zivadinov has read the materials I wrote related to the research he presented at ECTRIMS, and the conclusions drawn, and signed off on them.
As for your assertion that healthy people do not have blocked veins, that simply cannot be stated as fact at this time. While on its face it may seem like a perfectly logical statement, in reality there is no benchmark "normal" with which to separate out abnormal from normal in regards to CNS venous anatomy. When the doctors at the NIH reviewed my venogram images, they told me that they could easily pull out a dozen or more similar images from patients that exhibited absolutely no ill effects from the blockages found. They did not seem to think that such abnormalities fell outside of the parameters of what might be considered normal variance from patient to patient.
Like you, if I knew I had blocked veins but was experiencing no adverse effects from them, I'd be quite concerned. However, that concern might be completely unwarranted. We are all likely walking around with "abnormal" physical traits that don't manifest in disease. On the other hand, better safe than sorry, thus the terrific importance of both the academic and treatment trials that are currently ongoing.
As for my own personal situation, it's quite a conundrum. A muscle bundle is definitely pinching my right internal jugular vein, quite dramatically, but according to Dr. Zamboni's interpretation of my images, that blockage is not causing turbulent blood flow reflux, so is no real cause for concern. Easy for him to say. It may be that the only way to relieve this compression would be to undergo traditional open neck surgery, and excise the offending muscle, a fairly major surgery. I'm intrigued with the possibility that chiropractic manipulation might help the situation. But, it very well could be as Dr. Zamboni says, and this blockage is doing me no harm.
Like you say, things are getting mighty interesting. There is an ancient Chinese curse that translates, "May you live in interesting times"…
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