random thoughts

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Cece » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:48 pm

scorpion, I read that differently:
Without treatment, most patients with complete venous obstruction die of liver failure within 3 yr. For patients with incomplete obstruction, the course varies.

Manifestations range from none (asymptomatic) to fulminant liver failure or cirrhosis. Symptoms vary depending on whether the obstruction occurs acutely or over time.

With cerebral venous drainage, it is rare that all the main veins (r-ijv, l-ijv and verts) would all be entirely occluded. Even then there are collaterals. CCSVI is analogous to incomplete obstruction Budd Chiari.
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Postby scorpion » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:57 pm

Cece wrote:scorpion, I read that differently:
Without treatment, most patients with complete venous obstruction die of liver failure within 3 yr. For patients with incomplete obstruction, the course varies.

Manifestations range from none (asymptomatic) to fulminant liver failure or cirrhosis. Symptoms vary depending on whether the obstruction occurs acutely or over time.

With cerebral venous drainage, it is rare that all the main veins (r-ijv, l-ijv and verts) would all be entirely occluded. Even then there are collaterals. CCSVI is analogous to incomplete obstruction Budd Chiari.


According to this study partial blockage, with therapy, results in a life expectancy of 5-10 years.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2925647/
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:23 pm

Thank you for citing research, scorpion. It makes discussion much easier. Cece was right, in Budd-Chiari--the first paper you linked:


Prognosis
Without treatment, most patients with complete venous obstruction die of liver failure within 3 yr. For patients with incomplete obstruction, the course varies.


Complete obstruction is very, very different than incomplete. If you had two completely blocked jugular veins and no collaterals, you wouldn't be around for very long.

Now, the second paper you linked to was regarding polycystic liver disease, a very different scenario than Budd-Chiari. Not the same...

Polycystic liver disease (PLD) is a unique clinical problem frequently associated with autosomal dominant polycystic kidney disease (ADPKD).1,2 Most patients with PLD do not require intervention for their liver cysts


Again, please read Dr. B.B. Lee's paper on the likening of Budd Chiari to CCSVI. He is referring to a scenario like the incomplete obstruction of the hepatic veins created by webs and other malformations. He explains it better than I can-
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby scorpion » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:29 pm

cheerleader wrote:Thank you for citing research, scorpion. It makes discussion much easier. Cece was right, in Budd-Chiari--the first paper you linked:


Prognosis
Without treatment, most patients with complete venous obstruction die of liver failure within 3 yr. For patients with incomplete obstruction, the course varies.


Complete obstruction is very, very different than incomplete. If you had two completely blocked jugular veins and no collaterals, you wouldn't be around for very long.

Now, the second paper you linked to was regarding polycystic liver disease, a very different scenario than Budd-Chiari. Not the same...
Polycystic liver disease (PLD) is a unique clinical problem frequently associated with autosomal dominant polycystic kidney disease (ADPKD).1,2 Most patients with PLD do not require intervention for their liver cysts


Again, please read Dr. B.B. Lee's paper on the likening of Budd Chiari to CCSVI. He is referring to a scenario like the incomplete obstruction of the hepatic veins created by webs and other malformations. He explains it better than I can-
cheer


lol. i new I should not be posting while cooking dinner.
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Postby malden » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:33 pm

marcstck wrote:...
At the end of the day, we all want the same thing: relief from this terrible disease.

At the end of the day, relief from this terrible disease I found with my family and my friends. Not in my doctors or sham procedures.
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Postby CCSVIhusband » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:46 pm

Malden wrote:
marcstck wrote:...
At the end of the day, we all want the same thing: relief from this terrible disease.

At the end of the day, relief from this terrible disease I found with my family and my friends. Not in my doctors or sham procedures.


OK, then why do you even post in this forum? You add nothing to the discussion that anyone can take away and say ... wow I didn't know that about CCSVI, I'm glad I know that now.

Because that "sham" procedure worked on my wife and a lot of other people ...
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Postby Donnchadh » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:39 pm

Malden wrote:
marcstck wrote:...
At the end of the day, we all want the same thing: relief from this terrible disease.

At the end of the day, relief from this terrible disease I found with my family and my friends. Not in my doctors or sham procedures.



If you found the cure for "MS" then why don't you share it with others?

Donnchadh
Kitty says, "Take that, you stenosis!"

Got MS?.....Get Liberated!
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