New Medical Myths post.

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

New Medical Myths post.

Postby concerned » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:39 pm

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Postby CCSVIhusband » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:49 pm

One would wonder why this doctor, so smart he, is no longer treating anyone, or has never done anything useful in his career ...

personal attacks removed

He gives you your talking points, but that's about it. (and I'm as conservative as they come, but my analogy works)
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Postby dunkempt » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:01 pm

Rose writes:

None of this is likely to stop the likes of Marien Simka in Katowice, Poland who makes at least $500,000 per week doing “liberation”


Hmm... Dr. Rose might be right or wrong about CCSVI, but apparently he is NOT BRIGHT or ACCURATE when it comes to money.

Well-publicized treatment rates at the EuroMedic (where Dr. Simka practices): 6 patients a day, 6 days a week.

That's ... no, wait, I can do it in my head ... 36 patients a week.

Costs (paid this myself), also fairly well-publicized:

~$10,000

When means ... hold on ... $360,000/ a week in REVENUE.

So, assuming there were NO EXPENSES from the hospital or the MRV work, or the accommodations, and assuming that no one else (janitors, nurses, radiologists, secretaries, drivers, his fellow surgeons - for Simka does not perform the procedure himself, etc.) shared in any of that income, and assuming the schedule was never interrupted, Rose figures would still be GROSSLY WRONG.

Honestly.

Maybe that money I spent was well-spent or maybe it's all a racket, but why would you listen to someone who writes something like that?

Is he ignorant? Careless? Stupid? If there is there a fourth option, please explain.

-d
dx rrms august 2009 (dx CFS spring 1988) off avonex after 3 months
treated katowice 24-25 march 2010 - best thing that ever happened - check tracking thread
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Postby CCSVIhusband » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:04 pm

personal attacks removed

my name is Rick (I'll tell you my last name privately) ... I'm 30 years old ... multiple graduate degrees in engineering ... I've run 4 marathons, I used to be a wrestler ... anything else you want to know about me ask.

My wife had CCSVI procedure performed in June in the USA ... and had great results ... she has MS ... and she believes CCSVI is real, and fixing it has helped her greatly for the last 5 months. That's good enough to me.

personal attacks removed
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Postby concerned » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:32 pm

CCSVIhusband wrote:personal attacks removed


I'm a member of the CCSVI group on facebook.

Let's not get into all of this again.
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Postby concerned » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:48 pm

CCSVIhusband wrote:personal attacks removed


Colin Rose is a cardiologist, and has a phd. on top of that. Also, he has taught at McGill, at least I think.

Glenn Beck is a recovering drug addict who found salvation through mormonism and pseudo-libertarian Reagan worshiping and Sarah Palin thinks she can see Russia from her back porch. Neither of them have any education in their relevant fields.

Pretty different. I would rather take talking points from someone who knows what they are talking about because they studied it for years and went through extremely difficult testing to become a doctor, twice, than a guy famous for hosting a lewd top 40 radio program and a person with a reality show on TLC and barely even a basic command of the english language. They have no right to be giving people talking points because they both don't know what the hell they're talking about. It's all inconsequential anyway because we all know that the GOP and the Koch brothers are giving both of them their talking points anyway. "Drill Baby, Drill"!!!

See you at deepwater horizon, baby.
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Postby Lyon » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:54 pm

.
Last edited by Lyon on Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CureIous » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:00 pm

CR doesn't impress me in the least. And I'm easily impressed. While anything from him is sure to "stir a firestorm of controversy", I find ignoring it and him the best solution, why waste time on such matters? I mean, one can only so strongly affirm someone doesn't believe something, after some time of these "no, but really, I mean really, I REALLY DO NOT BELIEVE IN CCSVI" blog posts, that I think everyone kinda gets the point, has made up their mind as to his veracity or lack thereof, and is kinda over it.

Seriously though, move on.
RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap
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Postby Johnson » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:43 pm

CureIous wrote:CR doesn't impress me in the least. And I'm easily impressed. While anything from him is sure to "stir a firestorm of controversy", I find ignoring it and him the best solution, why waste time on such matters? I mean, one can only so strongly affirm someone doesn't believe something, after some time of these "no, but really, I mean really, I REALLY DO NOT BELIEVE IN CCSVI" blog posts, that I think everyone kinda gets the point, has made up their mind as to his veracity or lack thereof, and is kinda over it.

Seriously though, move on.


Word, Brother.

('cept I'm not easily impressed)
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:03 am

rules of the board
If you disagree with someone, please succintly state why and let it go at that. Point, counterpoint, counter-counter point, etc. is not useful-- the reality is that after the first disagreement, you will rarely convince another of something they feel strongly about unless you have shocking new information to share. The drawn-out debates also turn people off from reading the messages in the first place. If you really have to get something off your chest, please send that person a Private Message-- there is no need to have a long argument in public.

For the most part, everything on the board so far is just fine, but I want to keep it that way. We are all in this fight together; Let's focus all of our energies on trying to beat MS into submission, not each other.

Personal attacks, which can consist of slightly veiled innuendo or sarcastic comments aimed at the poster as opposed to the content of the post, are not tolerated at This is MS. We of course reserve the right to ban or suspend any member who violates this rule.
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Postby concerned » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:34 am

dunkempt wrote:Rose writes:

None of this is likely to stop the likes of Marien Simka in Katowice, Poland who makes at least $500,000 per week doing “liberation”


Hmm... Dr. Rose might be right or wrong about CCSVI, but apparently he is NOT BRIGHT or ACCURATE when it comes to money.

Well-publicized treatment rates at the EuroMedic (where Dr. Simka practices): 6 patients a day, 6 days a week.

That's ... no, wait, I can do it in my head ... 36 patients a week.

Costs (paid this myself), also fairly well-publicized:

~$10,000

When means ... hold on ... $360,000/ a week in REVENUE.

So, assuming there were NO EXPENSES from the hospital or the MRV work, or the accommodations, and assuming that no one else (janitors, nurses, radiologists, secretaries, drivers, his fellow surgeons - for Simka does not perform the procedure himself, etc.) shared in any of that income, and assuming the schedule was never interrupted, Rose figures would still be GROSSLY WRONG.

Honestly.

Maybe that money I spent was well-spent or maybe it's all a racket, but why would you listen to someone who writes something like that?

Is he ignorant? Careless? Stupid? If there is there a fourth option, please explain.

-d


First off, $360,000 dollars a week isn't much different from $500,000 a week, some people just round up. Colin Rose says he has heard of Simka doing 10 procedures a day, 5 days a week, which is where the $500,000 number comes from.

Even if it is $360,000 dollars a week, that's $18.7 million dollars annually. That's a lot of money that they're raking in for an untested, experimental procedure.

EDIT: Say what you will, I think we can all agree that a small handful of doctors are raking upwards of a hundred million dollars annually. Never mind the people charging $25,000 or $40,000 or even $80,000. Liberation is worth a lot to these doctors with vested interest in it, maybe even more than pharma CEO's.

ALSO- janitors, nurses, secretaries aren't making very much money annually, that's still tons going to him and his friends for performing an experimental procedure whose inventor says it should not be performed outside of a clinical trial.
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Postby Cece » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:58 am

Lyon wrote:personal attacks removed

If only the same could be said (personal attacks removed) for Colin Rose's site. There's no need to engage with what he says, just knowing that he's a guy who posts pictures of strangers derisiviely mocking them for their weight pretty much says it all.
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Postby concerned » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:09 am

Wow. The Euromedic website says "Taking Care for your Cure."

I thought nobody was calling it a "cure" but the media?




Cece - You certainly don't have to visit Colin Rose's site if you don't want to, but unfortunately, the moderators here aren't the moderators of the whole internet. But I guess making fun of someones command of english is much more acceptable to you than making fun of someones weight that they refuse to try and control, costing us all huge sums of money. (Making fun of peoples weight is one thing, but when they're eating Burger King poutine and smoking a cigarette and relying on healthcare to treat their diabetes, it's whole different kettle of fish.) But don't worry, we have pharmaceutical companies to provide them with expensive drugs to do with great cost to the body what some effort and a little self control could do for free!
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Postby scorpion » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:18 am

CureIous wrote:CR doesn't impress me in the least. And I'm easily impressed. While anything from him is sure to "stir a firestorm of controversy", I find ignoring it and him the best solution, why waste time on such matters? I mean, one can only so strongly affirm someone doesn't believe something, after some time of these "no, but really, I mean really, I REALLY DO NOT BELIEVE IN CCSVI" blog posts, that I think everyone kinda gets the point, has made up their mind as to his veracity or lack thereof, and is kinda over it.

Seriously though, move on.


Although Rose at times comes off as a "know-it all" ignoring what he says is not going to make his questions or skepticism go away. One way to quiet the likes of Rose and other "skeptics" is for Zamboni and his pals to start presenting some studies that prove CCVSVI exists and is implicated in MS. Honestly, in Rose's defense, so far his predictions about the future of CCSVI seem to be coming to fruition. There are a lot of study results in the pipeline and I guess until a study comes along with some kind of positive results more skeptics will continue to come out of the wood work!
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Postby Cece » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:25 am

concerned wrote:Cece - You certainly don't have to visit Colin Rose's site if you don't want to, but unfortunately, the moderators here aren't the moderators of the whole internet. But I guess making fun of someones command of english is much more acceptable to you than making fun of someones weight that they refuse to try and control, costing us all huge sums of money. (Making fun of peoples weight is one thing, but when they're eating Burger King poutine and smoking a cigarette and relying on healthcare to treat their diabetes, it's whole different kettle of fish.) But don't worry, we have pharmaceutical companies to provide them with expensive drugs to do with great cost to the body what some effort and a little self control could do for free!

I do not make fun of people's english, this is a twisting of a conversation here where I referred back to an entire thread of controversy over Malden's initial posts. I am guilty of not expressing myself clearly enough that it could not be twisted.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the challenges we all face in this world. We are all human.

If people moderated themselves, there would be no need for outside moderators. But again, we are all human.
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