Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby MarkW » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:11 am

Hello Ton,
I suggest you ask the lab to convert your results as I do not want to confuse units and chemical entities measured.
Jimmylegs is correct on the type of vit D. I recommend vitamin D3 in a liquid/soft gelatin capsule formulation. Using D2 in tablet form produces different results in pwMS. I am not certain why, could be the molecule itself, the particle size, tablet hardness or the person's biochemistry.
Kind regards,
MarkW

PS thanks to Jimmylegs for her answer.
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Advertisement

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby ton » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:13 pm

JIMMYLEGS, MARK.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR KIND RESPONSE

I´M SORRY FOR NO REPLYING BEFORE BUT I WAS TRYING TO ANALYZE THE OPTIONS PRESENTED:
JIMMYLEGS RECOMMENDS ME THE INTAKE OF CALCIDIOL, MARK SUGGEST D3 IN A CAPSULE FORMULATION LIQUID / SOFT GELATIN AND THE DOCTOR INDICATED TO ME CALCITRIOL IN ALTERNATE DAYS FOR 2 MONTHS AND THEN GET A NEW ANALYSIS. 8O :?

• ARE THERE ANY WAY TO SEE WHICH OF THESE OPTIONS MAY BE THE BEST IN MY CASE?

• MARK: HOW I CAN ASK THE CONVERSION OF UNITS AND CHEMICAL ENTITIES MEASURED ?

LET ME SEND YOU , A SUMMARY OF THE PROSPECTUS OF THIS MEDICINE AS IT IS SOLD HERE IN ARGENTINA.
(IT IS WITHOUT TRANSLATE BECAUSE I DON´T WANT PRESENT IT WITH MISTAKES)

[size=150]Calcitriol - ROCHE[/size]
1α, 25-dihidroxicolecalciferol
Expendio bajo receta
Industria Alemana
Forma biológicamente activa de la vitamina D3

Composición
Cada cápsula contiene como principio activo 0,25 µg de 1α, 25-dihidroxicolecalciferol,
en un excipiente de hidroxianisol butilado, hidroxitolueno butilado y
triglicéridos de aceite de coco.


Acción terapéutica
1α, 25-dihidroxicolecalciferol: forma biológicamente activa de la vitamina D3

IN ANOTHER ORDER OF THINGS BUT IN THE SAME SITUATION:
IN NO ABUSE OF YOUR KINDNESS I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU THE RESULTS OF MY OWN BLOOD TEST DONE IN NOVEMBER WHICH SHOWS A METABOLIC DISORDER IN VARIOUS ASPECTS:
SERUM CALCIUM: 10.4 MG% (SEEM TO BE NORMAL VALUES, THEY ARE BEING TAKEN FROM THE BONES CALCIUM?)
LITHIUM: LESS THAN 0.10 MEQ / 1
COLSTEROL LDL: 189 MG%
SERUM TRIGLYCERIDES 360 MG%
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE: 298 MG%
EPSTEIN BARR: 532 U / ML
VITAMIN E: 1.60 MG / L
VITAMIN B6: LESS THAN 1.00 NG / ML
ZINC : 128 UG / DL
MG: MG 2.20%
SEROTONIN: 29 NG / ML
I WONDER IF ALL THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH DR. ANGELIQUE CORTHALS´S FRAMEWORK.
THANKS AGAIN AND KIND REGARDS.
TON
User avatar
ton
Family Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby ton » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:09 am

A Clinical trial will test whether Vitamin D can help fight multiple sclerosis (MS).

If successful, researchers say the trial could open the door to a treatment which is 100 times cheaper than other drugs available.

The $2 million trial, announced today by MS Research Australia, will begin recruiting in Victoria, NSW, Tasmania and New Zealand from April.

Researchers hope to find 150 people with early or suspected symptoms of MS and put them on varying doses of Vitamin D.

"If we can ... watch to see if that actually slows the progress or stops the progress, and they don't actually get MS, then we know Vitamin D is having an effect," MS Research Australia CEO Jeremy Wright said.

The vitamin, which can be sourced from sunlight and some foods, is gaining credence as an effective treatment in preventing MS.

But all the evidence so far has been circumstantial, Mr Wright said.

"If we can prove the efficacy we are going to come up with a treatment which, would you believe, is about 100 times cheaper than the current treatments," Mr Wright said.

"But it won't be a solo treatment. It will join the other treatments and add impacts, is what we expect."

He said it was hoped the study would show some results in five years.

Some 20,000 Australians are diagnosed with MS, an incurable disease which attacks the central nervous system and can cause bladder dysfunction, spasticity, depression and cognitive problems.

Source: The Australian © 2012 The Australian (23/02/12)

8O five years?
User avatar
ton
Family Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:05 pm

hi mark re the above, yvw.

ton: mark and i are both recommending d3, which comes in two forms, either 25(OH)D3 (calcidiol) or 1,25(OH)2D3 (calcitriol).
when mark says d3 i am fairly confident he also means the calcidiol version.

without knowing all your particulars and not being a professional i would venture to say that your doc is incorrect in advising you take calcitriol as a supplement (ie 1,25(OH)2D3).

just thinking out loud, but your doc may be confusing D2 for calcidiol and D3 for calcitriol. in fact d2 is ergocalciferol and d3 is cholecalciferol which comes in different metabolites eg calcidiol and calcitriol. they're both d3 even though one form says 'di' and the other 'tri'.

my d3 is high potency liquid which i take in drops. softgels as per mark's suggestion would be good too but i suspect not as high potency.

the medicine info you sent "1α, 25-dihidroxicolecalciferol" is definitely calcitriol and yes, although this is the 'forma biológicamente activa de la vitamina D3' it is not the one you want to test for or supplement for ms. this whole chat is reminding me of an early dispute with my doctor over which form of d3 to test - calcidiol or calcitriol. originally she argued for testing calcitriol specifically because it is la forma biologicamente activa, but that's not the one you test. when you test, you want to know how much calcidiol is in your system ready to be made into calcitriol when you need it. some patients do need to test calcitriol in the blood but that's usually because it's too high and they'd certainly not want to be supplementing that product.

i'm not good at reading your tests results when they come in as % values. but i can read that zinc and convert it - it works out to about 19.5 umol/L which is even higher than i would usually suggest people aim for - surprisingly good number!

i have some more reading to do in order to know what you mean by DR. ANGELIQUE CORTHALS´S FRAMEWORK.

hope that helps!

jimmylegs
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9025
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

HELP YOURSELF - Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby MarkW » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:17 am

So everyone knows - I take D3 as Cholecalciferol in a softgel capsule. This is the most bioavailable capsule form. Taking Vit D3 as drops is feasible if you have good manual dexterity, many pwMS like me don't. Both 5000IU and 10,000 IU softgel capsules are available from the USA via the web. Dosage should be quoted in International Units not ug to avoid confusion.

Hope this helps, I try to make my advice easy to follow.

MarkW
Last edited by MarkW on Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Zinc Test with Vitamin D3

Postby MarkW » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:27 am

As Jimmylegs tells us, Zinc is important for vit D3 adsorption. Testing for Zinc is possible with a test called the Zinc Taste Test, which involves putting a solution in the mouth. No blood test ! You should find details on the web if your clinic has not heard of it. http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... pageid/653 is an example from MSRC in UK.

MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Vitamin D3 Trial

Postby MarkW » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:45 am

MS Research Austrialia is spending 2 million Aus dollars on on trial of Vit D3. It would cost about 50 Aus dollars to give a person with MS 5000 IU of Vit D3 every day for a year. The trial does not make economic sense, just give D3 and measure the change at a population level...................
MarkW (advice as a Pharmaceutical Consultant).
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby ton » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:10 am

[quote][/quote]MS Research Austrialia is spending 2 million Aus dollars on on trial of Vit D3. It would cost about 50 Aus dollars to give a person with MS 5000 IU of Vit D3 every day for a year. The trial does not make economic sense, just give D3 and measure the change at a population level...................
MarkW (advice as a Pharmaceutical Consultant).

HOLY WORD MARK, JUST ANOTHER GOOD AUSTRALIAN BUSINESS?
User avatar
ton
Family Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby ton » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:53 pm

My highest consideration and respect for all scientists and doctors who are working seriously in Australia!
User avatar
ton
Family Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby ton » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:02 pm

JIMMYLEGS AND MARK,
THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR ADVICES, I´LL TRY TO FOLLOW THEM.
KIND REGARDS.
TON
User avatar
ton
Family Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby ton » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:28 am

Effect of vitamin D3 supplementation on relapses, disease progression and measures of function in persons with MS

Vitamin DExploratory outcomes from a double-blind randomised controlled trial.

Summary: The authors report data from a 96-week randomised controlled treatment trial of vitamin D(3) supplementation on annualised relapse rate (ARR), EDSS, multiple sclerosis functional composite (MSFC) components, grip strength, and fatigue.

In patients with multiple sclerosis supplemented with 20,000 IU vitamin D(3) weekly there was no significant difference in ARR, EDSS, MSFC components, grip strength, or fatigue. Although the study was not powered to address clinical outcomes, none of the results were suggestive of a clinically meaningful effect of vitamin D(3) in this unselected population of fully ambulatory persons with multiple sclerosis.

Abstract
Background: High vitamin D levels may reduce the risk of relapses and disease progression in multiple sclerosis.

Methods: This 96-week randomised controlled trial was designed to assess the effect of vitamin D(3) supplementation on bone mineral density in persons with multiple sclerosis.

Supplementation with 20,000 IU vitamin D(3) weekly raised median serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D (25[OH]D) to 121 nmol/L. The modified intention to treat analysis included 35 persons in the vitamin D(3) group and 33 in the placebo group.

Participants were age 21 to 50 years and fully ambulatory (median Expanded Disability Status Scale (EDSS) 2.5). We studied the effect of supplementing vitamin D(3) on the exploratory outcomes annualised relapse rate (ARR), EDSS, multiple sclerosis functional composite (MSFC) components, grip strength, and fatigue.

Results: After 96 weeks, there was no significant difference between groups in ARR (absolute difference 0.10, 95% CI -0.07 to 0.27; p = 0.25), EDSS (absolute difference -0.01, 95% CI -0.35 to 0.35; p = 0.97), MSFC components, grip strength, or fatigue.

Conclusion: Supplementation with 20,000 IU vitamin D(3) weekly did not result in beneficial effects on the measured multiple sclerosis-related outcomes. This study was not powered to address clinical outcomes, but none of the results were suggestive of an effect in this unselected population of fully ambulatory persons with multiple sclerosis.

Full Text

Kampman MT, Steffensen LH, Mellgren SI, Jørgensen L.

Source: Mult Scler. 2012 Feb 21 Copyright © 2012 by SAGE Publications & Pubmed PMID: 22354743 (01/03/12)
User avatar
ton
Family Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:00 pm

Junk Science

Postby MarkW » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:50 am

The extract quoted does say how large (or small) the study was. 35 pwMS were followed in the study, it is junk science to draw conclusions from a study of this small size.
MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:22 pm

there's so much more than vit d3 going on too. geez, somebody throw some money at me to run studies of nutrients in ms patients :S
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9025
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby Cece » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:54 am

I think this is new?
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/early/2012/ ... 6.abstract
A randomised, double blind, placebo controlled trial with vitamin D3 as an add on treatment to interferon β-1b in patients with multiple sclerosis

Abstract

Objectives
To study the safety and efficacy of vitamin D3 as an add on therapy to interferon β-1b (IFNB) in patients with multiple sclerosis (MS).

Methods
1 year, double blind, placebo controlled, randomised study in 66 MS patients. The primary outcomes were T2 burden of disease (BOD) on MRI scans, proportion of patients with serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D) ≥85 nmol/l or intact parathyroid hormone (PTH) ≤20 ng/l, and number of adverse events. Secondary outcomes were number of MRI enhancing T1 lesions and new T2 lesions, annual relapse rate, changes in the Expanded Disability Status Scale score, timed 25 foot walk test and timed 10 foot tandem walk tests.

Results
Median change in BOD was 287 mm3 in the placebo group and 83 mm3 in the vitamin D group (p=0.105). Serum levels of 25(OH)D increased from a mean of 54 (range 19–82) nmol/l to 110 (range 67–163) nmol/l in the vitamin D group. 84% of patients reached a serum 25(OH)D level >85 nmol/l in the vitamin D group and 3% in the placebo group (p<0.0001). Patients in the vitamin D group showed fewer new T2 lesions (p=0.286) and a significantly lower number of T1 enhancing lesions (p=0.004), as well as a tendency to reduced disability accumulation (p=0.071) and to improved timed tandem walk (p=0.076). There were no significant differences in adverse events or in the annual relapse rate.

Conclusion
Vitamin D3 add on treatment to IFNB reduces MRI disease activity in MS.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 9022
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Re: HELP YOURSELF-Take Vitamin D3 Before and After De-Stenos

Postby MarkW » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:07 pm

Thanks for the post Cece. The findings support adding D3 to all therapies in pwMS. The economics of this say just add D3 to interferons. The cost of D3 is around 20 USD a year and interferon approaching 20,000 USD a year. It is a 'no brainer', forget more research just give D3 to pwMS.
MarkW

Cece wrote:I think this is new?
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/early/2012/ ... 6.abstract
A randomised, double blind, placebo controlled trial with vitamin D3 as an add on treatment to interferon β-1b in patients with multiple sclerosis
Abstract
Objectives
To study the safety and efficacy of vitamin D3 as an add on therapy to interferon β-1b (IFNB) in patients with multiple sclerosis (MS).
Methods
1 year, double blind, placebo controlled, randomised study in 66 MS patients. The primary outcomes were T2 burden of disease (BOD) on MRI scans, proportion of patients with serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D) ≥85 nmol/l or intact parathyroid hormone (PTH) ≤20 ng/l, and number of adverse events. Secondary outcomes were number of MRI enhancing T1 lesions and new T2 lesions, annual relapse rate, changes in the Expanded Disability Status Scale score, timed 25 foot walk test and timed 10 foot tandem walk tests.
Results
Median change in BOD was 287 mm3 in the placebo group and 83 mm3 in the vitamin D group (p=0.105). Serum levels of 25(OH)D increased from a mean of 54 (range 19–82) nmol/l to 110 (range 67–163) nmol/l in the vitamin D group. 84% of patients reached a serum 25(OH)D level >85 nmol/l in the vitamin D group and 3% in the placebo group (p<0.0001). Patients in the vitamin D group showed fewer new T2 lesions (p=0.286) and a significantly lower number of T1 enhancing lesions (p=0.004), as well as a tendency to reduced disability accumulation (p=0.071) and to improved timed tandem walk (p=0.076). There were no significant differences in adverse events or in the annual relapse rate.
Conclusion
Vitamin D3 add on treatment to IFNB reduces MRI disease activity in MS.
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

PreviousNext

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service