Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:32 am

vitamin d3 is rat poison.
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 8984
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Advertisement

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:35 am

ehow:

Hypercalcemia
Cholecalciferol is a vitamin D3-based rat poison. The substance is toxic for rodents because it assists in absorption of calcium in the body. This uptake is lethal for rats and other vermin because the increased levels of calcium leads to mineralization (crystal formation) in blood vessels, stomach, kidneys and lungs. This phenomenon, referred to as hypercalcemia, is singularly caused by cholecalciferol substantially increasing calcium levels in the rodent body. In time, ingestion of cholecalciferol ultimately leads to heart problems, bleeding, kidney failure and death.

Types of Effects
Ability of vitamin-D3 poisons, such as cholecalciferol, to kill rats at first exposure depends on the concentration of its active ingredient in the bait; if it contains more than a particular concentration of cholecalciferol, the poison is a "single-dose" type. Poison variants that infect the rodent with small ingestions over time are known as "cumulative." Cumulative-effect poisons contain relatively smaller doses of toxic substances. In general, a bait with a cholecalciferol concentration of 0.075 percent will kill the rodent after a single ingestion of relatively large portions. A subchronic poisonous effect is when death occurs within a week of ingesting the bait
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 8984
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Vit D3 is bad for rats

Postby MarkW » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:11 am

Vit D3 is bad for rats so be careful if you have a pet rat and it takes your vit D3.

Vit D3 is very important for pwMS. I recommend 5000iu/day for 2-3 months, then testing for your blood level. Mine was 231nmol/L last month after 3 weeks of sunshine and 10,000iu/day.

There is discussion of this paper on another CCSVI thread:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0/abstract

Remember vit D3 does kills rats (see Jimmylegs post) and the study was looking at arteries not veins.

The person who is not called Johnson said:
"I was a quiet advocate of Vit. D supplementation long before popular medicine got hold of it I took 10,000 - 20,000 IU a day for quite a few years - before I cut it out entirely last September. There were times when I took 100,000 IU in a single dose to kill oncoming cold/flu I was getting worse and worse vis-a-vis "MS" symptoms, and thought that I had gone SP by March 2010."

I have not seen any research evidence that vit D3 is harmful to pwMS at doses of 5000iu/day.

MarkW
Last edited by MarkW on Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Re: Vit D3 is bad for rats

Postby Liberation » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:57 am

MarkW wrote:Vit D3 is bad for rats so be careful if you have a pet rat and it takes your vit D3.

Vit D3 is very important for pwMS. I recommend 5000iu/day for 2-3 months, then testing for your blood level. Mine was 231nmol/L last month after 3 weeks of sunshine.

There is discussion of this paper on another CCSVI thread:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0/abstract

Remember vit D3 does kills rats (see Jimmylegs post) and the study was looking at arteries not veins.

The person who is not called Johnson said:
"I was a quiet advocate of Vit. D supplementation long before popular medicine got hold of it I took 10,000 - 20,000 IU a day for quite a few years - before I cut it out entirely last September. There were times when I took 100,000 IU in a single dose to kill oncoming cold/flu I was getting worse and worse vis-a-vis "MS" symptoms, and thought that I had gone SP by March 2010."

I have not seen any research evidence that vit D3 is harmful to pwMS at doses of 5000iu/day.

MarkW


I am in contact with a research professor from the US and she recommends 10,000 IU per day. Clinical tests show no adverse effect in that dose. However, it is an interesting question, what is it impact on our veins, can it worsen intimal hyperplasia? I guess that is an aspect that MS researchers did not examine as they still not beleive in any connectios between MS and CCSVI.
User avatar
Liberation
Family Elder
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:00 pm

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:00 am

vit d3 is very important. however i have personal experience of serious detrimental effects of taking 4000 IU/d supplemental vit d3 without properly balancing and timing magnesium intake. there's also the variable dose response depending on zinc status. that was a surprise.
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 8984
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Postby TMrox » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:30 pm

Differences in how vit D is processed in humans and mice are one of the many reasons why I think one should not read too much into mice studies.

I saw this comment from Professor Young, a clinical neuroscientist, a while ago regarding a study that found UVB light suppresed EAE but did not increase 25(OH) D3 level in mice:
http://www.monitorandcommentary.com/pdf ... mmer10.pdf

"One must be cautios in extrapolating the current studies undertaken in a mouse model of encephalomyelitis (EAE) to MS in man. In particular, mice are nocturnal animals, so the effects of UVB light are quite likely to be different than they are in humans. In fact, while the authors found that UVB light exposure did not increase 25(OH)D3 levels in mice, others have shown that UVB light exposure in humans to a degree where there is a pinkish hue to the skin raises serum 25(OH)D3 levels substantially. Perhaps, in mice, UVB light alters vitamin D status in a manner independent of 25(OH)D3 levels, but still dependent on the active form of vitamin D, 1,25(OH2)D3. Thus, in mice, there may be a very different relationship between UVB light, the active form of vitamin D, and the effect on immune modulators."


Rox
Diagnosed with Transverse Myelitis in December 2008. Inflammatory demyelination of the spinal cord (c3-c5). No MS, but still CCSVI.
User avatar
TMrox
Family Elder
 
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:00 pm

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:37 pm

liberation, the rats have trouble because the doses of D3 cause hypercalcemia with associated toxic effects including, apparently, the intimal hyperplasia.

in humans D3 levels have to be way higher than average joe to result in hypercalcemia. by and large people are well down under 100 nmol/L.

i aim for 125-150 nmol/L but i personally would not have any concerns about hypercalcemia unless i was up over 250nmol/L.

i've only ever had one lab result come back in the 'danger zone' (i was at 271 nmol/L). i went high like that by accident because i megadosed in 2009 the same way i had done in 2006, but in the meantime i had noticed and fixed a zinc deficiency. not sure exactly how it went down, but i absorbed a high dose of vit d3 three times better than previously, so the levels shot up far higher than anticipated.

bloodwork is the key - just make sure you know your dose response to vitamin d3 and your serum levels, and you should not have to worry about hypercalcemia from d3 supplementation.
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 8984
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Take Vitamin D Before and After De-Stenosis

Postby NHE » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:29 pm

jimmylegs wrote:vitamin d3 is rat poison.


So, we give rat poison to rats and watch them get sick. We then write it up, call it a "study" and submit to a journal for publication. Now we can add it to the published articles section of our CV in order to promote our career. We might as well publish that HCN cures EAE...
      Image



NHE
User avatar
NHE
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:00 pm

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:54 am

lol NHE :)
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 8984
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Vitamin D3 for pwMS planning pregnancy

Postby MarkW » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:16 am

Firstly, thanks to NHE for the cartoon. Hydrogen cyanide (HCN) is a definite cure for mouse model MS (EAE).

If you are thinking of getting pregnant then it is doubley important to ensure you have good levels of vit D. Abstract of meta analysis (collection and data combination of many studies) is below.

MarkW

J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry. 2011 Apr 8. [Epub ahead of print]

Latitude is significantly associated with the prevalence of multiple sclerosis: a meta-analysis.
Simpson S Jr, Blizzard L, Otahal P, Van der Mei I, Taylor B.

Menzies Research Institute Tasmania, University of Tasmania, Hobart, Australia.

Abstract
There is a striking latitudinal gradient in multiple sclerosis (MS) prevalence, but exceptions in Mediterranean Europe and northern Scandinavia, and some systematic reviews, have suggested that the gradient may be an artefact. The authors sought to evaluate the association between MS prevalence and latitude by meta-regression. Methods and findings Studies were sourced from online databases, reference mining and author referral. Prevalence estimates were age-standardised to the 2009 European population. Analyses were carried out by means of random-effects meta-regression, weighted with the inverse of within-study variance. The authors included 650 prevalence estimates from 321 peer-reviewed studies; 239 were age-standardised, and 159 provided sex-specific data. The authors found a significant positive association (change in prevalence per degree-latitude) between age-standardised prevalence (1.04, p<0.001) and latitude that diminished at high latitudes. Adjustment for prevalence year strengthened the association with latitude (2.60, p<0.001). An inverse gradient in the Italian region reversed on adjustment for MS-associated HLA-DRB1 allele distributions. Adjustment for HLA-DRB1 allele frequencies did not appreciably alter the gradient in Europe. Adjustment for some potential sources of bias did not affect the observed associations. Conclusion This, the most comprehensive review of MS prevalence to date, has confirmed a statistically significant positive association between MS prevalence and latitude globally. Exceptions to the gradient in the Italian region and northern Scandinavia are likely a result of genetic and behavioural-cultural variations. The persistence of a positive gradient in Europe after adjustment for HLA-DRB1 allele frequencies strongly supports a role for environmental factors which vary with latitude, the most prominent candidates being ultraviolet radiation (UVR)/vitamin D.
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:37 am

and as mentioned above, optimal zinc status helps maximize the body's dose response to d3 supplementation.

i don't have a study just personal xp, before and after. 3x better response to same dose of d3, after zinc repletion.

i tried to find *some* kind of study to back up what i noticed. happened across this bit of 1990 wisdom

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/120/4/398.full.pdf
"Normal laboratory ranges are 10.8 to 20 umol/L for serum zinc and 20 to 138 nmol/L for serum 25-hydroxycholecalciferol."

so wrong for assessing health status.. good old normal ranges. :roll:
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 8984
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Linking to/from another thread

Postby MarkW » Wed May 04, 2011 2:26 pm

Copy of post from thread:
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-reply-15913.html
Carollevin posted:

Mark,
You asked people's experience about Vitamin D. I have worked with my doctor through blood testing to get my Vitamin D levels in a good range. I live in a warm-weather state in the U.S. so at first I sat in the sun every day for 30 minutes a day. After months of this my D3 level as measured by blood was only about 28 (I believe it was nl/mg) and I do recall the reference range from the lab was 30 - 100. So I started taking Vitamin D3 in supplement form and had to go all the way to 10,000iu per day to get my D3 level to 57 (again in this lab the reference range is 30 - 100). This has been the case now for at least 2 years that I have been taking 10,000iu per day and I get my D measured by blood several times a year and it always comes out in the mid 50s. I suppose if I wanted to get it more in the 75 range, which some say is more ideal for PWMS, I would probably need to take 15,000iu....As to why I wasn't absorbing D from the sun, my doctor said he has seen that with others and he doesn't know why some people just don't absorb D well from the sun. Plus I was starting to get a lot of signs of aging from all the sun bathing, so anyway for now I'll just continue with the 10,000iu, which I do take along with an Omega 3 and a cal/mag, as recommended by Ashton Embry. I can't say it's really helped the MS. I don't know. I have had PPMS for 5 years, no remissions, but progression has been very slow.

MarkW posted:

Nearly mislaid this question completely Carollevin. To get lots of info on Vit D3 go to:
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-14805-da ... asc-0.html
Take note of Jimmylegs posts on Zinc, Magnesium etc and have them checked.

The thread will give you the usual ranges of D3 and lots of reference material. I aim for 150-200 nmol/L of D3. I am not sure which form of vit D your tests refers to, also the units are different. Lets make sure we have the same D3 and units.

MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Vit D info

Postby MarkW » Wed May 18, 2011 1:11 pm

5000 iu of D3 a day then have a test. Read Jimmylegs on minerals.
Its cheap and safe, just do it.

MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
User avatar
MarkW
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Postby jimmylegs » Wed May 18, 2011 7:58 pm

zinc zinc zinc. please test serum zinc and report back :)
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 8984
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Postby CD » Thu May 19, 2011 12:03 am

I just had my vitamin D level checked for the first time. I, like Carollevin, had a number of 29.5 nl/mg. My lab level for normal range was 32 - 100 nl/mg/

I take Cal, Mag, Zinc, and about 1600 IU daily of Vitamin D plus tons of other supplements like B12, etc.

I was just told by the ordering dr to up my intake to 2000 IU a day and make sure that I separate the times. Do not take all at once. Take the extra Vit D and Cal before bedtime.

So you all seem to think 2000 IU's is too low?

Also D3 upsets my tummy. All the gel tabs here have soy in them. I am allergic to soy (massive hives).

Always something.
CD
Where there is a will, there is a way. "HOPE"

CCSVI Procedure December 2010
User avatar
CD
Family Elder
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: USA

PreviousNext

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service