Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby MarkW » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:59 pm

Fatty fish decreases development of MS.....................MarkW

Mult Scler. 2013 Oct 24. [Epub ahead of print]
Fatty fish intake is associated with decreased occurrence of multiple sclerosis.
Bäärnhielm M, Olsson T, Alfredsson L.
Source
Institute of Environmental Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, Sweden.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
High vitamin D levels have been associated with a decreased risk of developing multiple sclerosis (MS). The most important source of dietary vitamin D is fatty fish.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this paper is to investigate the association between fish consumption and the risk of MS, including the interaction between fish intake and ultraviolet radiation (UVR) exposure habits.
METHODS:
This study is based on the project Epidemiological Investigation of MS (EIMS), which is a Swedish population-based case-control study. The analysis included 1879 incident cases of MS and 4135 controls. Subjects who reported high fatty fish intake were compared regarding occurrence of MS with those who reported low intake by calculating odds ratio (OR) with 95% confidence interval (CI).
RESULTS:
Frequent fatty fish intake was associated with decreased occurrence of MS (adjusted OR 0.82 (95% CI 0.68-0.98). There was no significant association between intake of lean fish and MS.
CONCLUSION:
Fatty fish intake might decrease the risk for MS. A hypothetical explanation is that intake of fatty fish may compensate for vitamin D deficiency that is associated with increased MS risk.
KEYWORDS:
Multiple sclerosis, case-control study, epidemiology, fatty fish, ultraviolet radiation (UVR) exposure, vitamin D
PMID: 24158977 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:48 pm

Mark did they say how much D3 the population gets from sun light in the area where the study was done?

I read in the Michael Holick work on Vit D that people in that region have one of the least D3 levels derived from sun light!

Some info on;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_F._Holick

:)
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Swedish Study

Postby MarkW » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:05 am

Hello NZ1/Nigel,
You are correct in thinking that Sweden does not receive much sunshine in winter, but not recorded in the study. Even less than the Scottish Islands (Shetland and Orkney), which have the most MS in UK by far. Historically fish was a key food source and MS incidence was lower than now. There are comparative studies indicating the role of Vit D3 but no large double blind placebo controlled trials (5000iu of Vit D3 per day costs less than 20 USD per year). Hence no studies to meet Neurologists demands (group in Berlin are trying). I recall that Vit D3 is a POM in NZ which is bad luck for you.
Kind regards,
MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:39 am

Thanks Mark,
The talk of the town or World is that the 'MS' problem may not be helped by Vit D supplementation and the trials such as the ANZ and the French who are using various dosages of Vit D supplements will help this understanding.

I have heard that Prof Hayes has found the Vit D supplementing doesn't change or halt the progression of 'MS' in an MS model disease. And that there is a problem with the conversion of the supplement to the bio-available form of Vit D, calcitriol, in PwMS. The problem is the focus of a new study proposal!

I also hear that Mr Ed Murray has spent tireless months/years putting together published research articles and a format for a trial to progress the Vit D involvement knowledge in a way that will answer many of the questions that 'all' of the past Vit D studies and trials have failed to do!

I have been a very fortunate participant in the information gathering and learning from Ed and the future looks bright for a whole new level of knowledge in auto-immune diseases! Very soon there will be an announcement to let everyone know what lays ahead!! :)

As always this requires financial support for the trial processes and that opportunity will be available for us all to assist soon.

:)
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Beyond Reasonable Doubt: The vitamin D piece of the MS puzzl

Postby Squeakycat » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:24 am

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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby ThisIsMA » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:19 am

Great article! And it makes me even more hesitant to drink milk from cows who spend their entire life in the barn. Its so ironic that vitamin D2 is added to cows milk. It sounds like if the cows were allowed to graze on pasture, they'd be making their own vitamin D from the sun! At least cows that produce milk that is labeled Organic in the USA do get to graze on pasture.
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby ThisIsMA » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:26 am

Nigel said:
The talk of the town or World is that the 'MS' problem may not be helped by Vit D supplementation

I have not heard that at all! In fact I've heard just the opposite! There are several very hopeful small studies about the benefits of high dose D3 supplements for MS. I agree that larger scale studies are needed. And the dose in the studies needs to be high enough to make a difference.
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:12 am

ThisIsMA wrote:Nigel said:
The talk of the town or World is that the 'MS' problem may not be helped by Vit D supplementation

I have not heard that at all! In fact I've heard just the opposite! There are several very hopeful small studies about the benefits of high dose D3 supplements for MS. I agree that larger scale studies are needed. And the dose in the studies needs to be high enough to make a difference.


The reason I made that comment was to show how there is confusion regarding the bio-available or calcitriol aspect of the Vit D process from start to finish.

As Prof Ebers is saying the timing of 'the best levels' of calcitriol in the big picture is not understood. To clarify, if there is a deficiency in the mother then that is said to have an effect on the development of the immune system in the fetus, that same line of thinking is also saying that the deficiency of calcitriol can run through generations down the paternal mothers side of the family tree. And taking that further the influence of genes and their switching is partly determined by both parents genes or the gene pool.

So when you look from the outside without knowing the full details it is a can of worms.

The take home knowledge is that we have the opportunity to use calcitriol supplementing as an option for defining this line of thought and advancing the knowledge through experimenting with doses and pulses of calcitriol as Prof Hayes is proposing and Ed Murray is being being extremely proactive in supporting it happening :) !

Lots to learn,
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby THX1138 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:27 pm

It is nice to see people pursuing non-drug solutions to dealing with MS.
I used to be rather serious about dealing with my MS by using "vitamin" D. For a few years I took between 5,000 IU and 10,000 IU of "vitamin" D. The only changes I saw during this period were a drastic worsening of spasticity and, later, severe brain fog, etc.
When I hear people talking about taking high levels of "Vitamin" D, I get concerned because:
1) "Vitamin" D is a hormone, not a vitamin.
2) "Vitamin" D uses up magnesium when it is converted to its active form.
3) Magnesium is needed to make muscles relax (both smooth and skeletal).
4) Muscles that do not relax sufficiently are not what we need - think spasticity and vasoconstriction. Also, cells with insufficient Mg levels allow excess calcium to enter and thus become hyper-reactive.
5 Supplementing with "Vitamin" D is not the only factor affecting D levels. Other nutrients, such as magnesium, are needed to assist with D.


A client emailed that he heard a doctor on a talk show recommending 5,000 IU of Vitamin D instead of the RDA of 400 IU. He asked me what I thought.

I said that everyone thinks there’s a Vitamin D deficiency epidemic but I’m not convinced. The big question is, why all of a sudden are we so deficient. What could Vitamin D be responding to and what do the low levels indicate?

Here’s one possible answer. Vitamin D is really a hormone with a feedback loop to calcium. When the body has enough calcium less Vitamin D is required and the levels drop.

We are a calcified country, so the effect of high calcium may be lower levels of Vitamin D. And without understanding the complex chemistry involved, most people think we just need to take more.

But MORE Vitamin D pulls in more calcium and bumps out magnesium, making people more magnesium deficient.

Taking high dose Vitamin D (anything above 2,000 IU) will also use up your magnesium because this mineral is required to change the supplemental/storage form of Vitamin D into active Vitamin D.

Not everyone is going to suffer from too much Vitamin D and enough people seem to benefit from it (at least in the short term) that it’s not going to ring any alarm bells for many years. After all, it took about 3 decades for us to realize that high dose calcium supplementation was causing heart disease and soft tissue calcification when not properly balanced with magnesium.

Do your research before taking high dose Vitamin D. Google the benefits AND the dangers before you make a decision. If you do a Vitamin D blood test, remember a mid range level is better than a high level.

http://drcarolyndean.com/2013/03/too-much-vitamin-d/

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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby ThisIsMA » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:40 pm

Interesting post. For me, 5,000 IU's a day DOES put me in the mid range. Also 5,000 IUs is not very much compared to standing in the sun for 15 minutes. However I'm interested in the magnesium information you posted so I'll research that some more and may run out and buy some magnesium supplements.

Thanks!

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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:58 pm

Both of the above comments are interesting primarily because they don't confront the bio-availability of Vit D, rather they talk about the precursor to the form that the body requires.

So does that give the answers to the issues of calcitriol and it's functions?

The lack of or the abundance of other minerals, amino acids and cellular supports is definitely relevant to the big picture but I think it is a separate quest. If all PwMS had the same deficiency or the the same abundances of other vitamins and minerals then the impact of calcitriol on the cellular processes would be easier to define, but when there is such a huge variance in the other vits and minerals it tends to suggest that the main impacting factor over all PwMS would be linked to calcitriol, imo.
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby THX1138 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:47 pm

ThisIsMA wrote:Interesting post. For me, 5,000 IU's a day DOES put me in the mid range. Also 5,000 IUs is not very much compared to standing in the sun for 15 minutes. However I'm interested in the magnesium information you posted so I'll research that some more and may run out and buy some magnesium supplements.

Thanks!

M.A.

Regarding oral Mg: Avoid Mg oxide (the most common type) and go for Mg glycinate or Mg malate. Topical Mg is really effective but more involved than simply swallowing pills.

:) With more and more things in life, I have found that nothing is as simple as it seems at first. The same holds true for magnesium. I have worked with magnesium very extensively for almost 2 years now. There is much excellent info regarding magnesium at TiMS and I would encourage anyone who wants to know more about this vital mineral to read the new edition of The Magnesium Miracle (Revised and Updated). http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034549458X/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Magnesium in the Central Nervous System

Here is link to the free e-book.
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/press/titles ... -ebook.pdf


Magnesium has loads of research behind it.

Good learning and health
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New Pathways article on D3

Postby MarkW » Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:35 pm

I submitted this article to UK MS magazine 'New Pathways' and it was edited and printed in the latest edition.
It should give pwMS a basic guide to Vitamin D3.
MarkW
============================================================
Take vitamin D3 and forget about vitamin D2!
“Spend a few pence per day on getting your vitamin D levels high.”
Says pharmaceutical consultant Mark Walker.
Mark Walker, 54, experienced his first MS symptoms in 1991. He lives near Oxford with his wife Natasha Austin.

With vitamin D, it’s important to get both the formulation and the level right. In the ‘Bring Me Sunshine’ article in the last issue, (83: Jan/Feb 2014, pages 24 & 25) the photo showed white tablets – this is the wrong formulation! Vitamin D is an oil-soluble vitamin which needs to be dissolved before you can absorb it. The easiest formulation to take is a soft gelatine capsule. The gelatine outside layer encloses oil, usually olive oil. Vitamin D3 is dissolved in the oil; a neat, small but measured dose.
The article also states that vitamin D3 is “more bio-available and effective” than D2. I discourage everyone from taking vitamin D2. People with MS who take D2 are probably wasting their money. The reason is that your body has to convert vitamin D2 to vitamin D3 - the active form - and people with MS may not do this.
Vitamin D3 in capsules is extracted from natural sources such as sheep lanolin, fish body oil and krill oil. However, be careful if using cod liver oil as your source of vitamin D as it also contains vitamin A, which is toxic at high levels. You can also get vitamin D from eating lots of oily fish.
Getting Vitamin D3 from sunshine is best - short bursts of sunbathing without any sunburn is ideal. Living in the UK this is not usually possible which is why you need to take D3 supplements.

Optimum Levels Of vitamin D3
The same article in the last issue also stated: “An optimum level is 75nmol/L (nanomols per litre) or more” for 25–hydroxyvitamin D levels.
My target range level of D3 in blood for someone with MS is 150-200 nmol/L. It’s a no-brainer, economically. If it’s the only thing you do, spend a few pence a day on getting your vitamin D levels into this range.
The NHS figures for the general population have little basis in science. Most importantly they are dangerously low for someone with MS.
NHS Figures for Vitamin D status:
Less than 15 nmol/L Severe deficiency
15 -30 Deficiency
30.1 -50 Insufficiency
Greater than 50 Adequate
Total vitamin D levels above 220 nmol/L are considered ‘High’ and increase the risk of vitamin D toxicity.
Source: Department of Clinical Biochemistry, City Hospital, Birmingham. Sandwell & West Birmingham Hospitals NHS Trust

Research – High Vitamin D3 Means fewer relapses
A small study found that high levels of Vitamin D3 meant fewer relapses, also beneficial effects which increase up to 115nmol/L. Larger studies are underway.
In suggesting a target level blood level for vitamin D3 for people with MS, I have used lots of research data and considered history. I started by thinking about human evolution! Humans evolved spending most of their time in daylight, foraging for food. Vitamin D3 is manufactured quickly in sunshine by bare skin and stored in the body’s fat until it is required. A feedback mechanism exists so we humans do not over produce D3 in sunny climates. This situation continued until the Industrial Revolution, which changed everything and we moved inside. Unfortunately, vitamin D3 levels were not measured in the 16 and 1700s, so we have no historic data! However, a study measured the natural levels of D3 of lifeguards in St Louis, USA. The average level was 150 nmol/L. This is my base target level as it is perfectly natural for humans to have this level. Please read more about high but safe levels of D3 visit the Vitamin D Council website: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vi ... vitamin-d/ .
Vitamin D3 is vital for human health because it is a precursor for vitamin D3 hormone (also known as Calcitriol), which is an immune system regulator. This means that vitamin D3 is also useful for those with progressive MS, not only in relapsing-remitting MS.
Some very recent research on MS uses vitamin D3 and Calcitriol in a novel protocol to reset the immune system. It works in mice and I await a ‘proof of concept’ trial in humans, with great interest. It could be a cheap and effective breakthrough for MS relapses.

Get your level checked
I recommend that you get your D3 level checked and your calcium levels measured at the same time. Your GP/Practise Nurse can do this on the NHS. Measuring calcium and vitamin D together is a good indication of bone health. It is helpful to know your baseline before starting to take D3 supplements.
My advice for anyone with MS is to take 5000 IU a day of vitamin D3, all year round. I take 10,000 IU in the winter (daylight saving period of October to March) and 5,000 IU in the lighter, summer months. Added to this, I love sunbathing and try to get a sunny winter holiday.
However, some people with MS find it hard to get their level up to 150 nmol/L even if they are taking 10,000 IU dose every day. They may not be absorbing vitamin D well because they don’t have enough of certain minerals and trace elements, sometimes called co-factors. When this happens I suggest taking Lambert’s Mega Mineral Complex (other brands contain similar ingredients).

Vitamin D3 is cheap, Why not take it?
The price of vitamin D3 is low. Giving 5,000IU a day to all of the 100,000 of us with MS would cost less than £2 million. It makes economic sense, so why will politicians not just do it for everyone with MS in the UK???
A diagnosis of MS costs £1m in a person’s lifetime if you include lost earnings and the cost to the family, the NHS and the economy. Taking vitamin D3 might be able to reduce the incidence of MS and its enormous costs.

Mark Walker supplies 5000 IU of vitamin D3 in a soft gelatine capsule to any member or visitor of the Oxford MS Therapy Centre (http://www.omstc.org) who wants it (Personal callers only). Current price is £12 for a year’s supply of 360 capsules, which he imports from the USA. Your GP may give you 5,000IU per day on an NHS prescription – it’s worth asking.

A background to Mark Walker is in this Daily Telegraph intervew: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/78823 ... elief.html
====================================================================
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: Vit D3>125nmol/L min in blood. FIRST SMALL STEP for pwMS

Postby NZer1 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:22 pm

This article is best read by looking at the link because the comments section has lots of valuable links as well;
https://www.facebook.com/notes/arne-kam ... 4911511987

This is the leading story;

The (Vitamin) Hormone D, Cholesterol, Calcium & Magnesium Connection
1 January 2014 at 20:06
Vitamin D is a Hormone NOT a Vitamin!

It’s the first hormone to exist on Earth and human beings have co-existed with this hormone for million years. To get Cholesterol (layer under the skin) activated by the sun to convert it into Hormone-D’s active form called Calcitriol there are THREE metabolic transactions necessary:

Under the Skin - via UV-B rays Cholesterol gets converted into CHOLECALCIFEROL D3, also called Provitamin D (a fat storage form)
In the Liver– via 25-OHase CHOLECALCIFEROL D3 gets converted into CALCIDIOL, main circulating form of D (water soluble)
In the Kidney – via 1-OHase CALCIDEROL gets converted into CALCITRIOL = Hormonal, ACTIVE form of D.
CALCITRIOL is a steroid-like hormone that interacts with its nuclear VDR (Vitamin D Receptor) in target tissues:
including the small intestine (to increase calcium resorption)
osteoblasts in bone (to increase bone calcium absorption)
in the renal tubular cells in the kidneys (to increase their calcium resorption).

BUT ALL of those transactions can O*N*L*Y happen WHEN MAGNESIUM IS PRESENT in proper amounts! That means the storage Vitamin-DCALCIDIOL-blood test is actually a pretty good Magnesium-body tissue test too!

Vitamin-D is a Hormone and all Hormones have a Target Mission & Target Tissue. One of Vitamin-D’s Target Tissues are the Intestines, and the Intestines have the Target Mission to absorb MORE CALCIUM, which inevitably leads to further loss of Magnesium and that’s what the Vitamin-D blood test is ACTUALLY showing us.

Why? Because the body knows exactly that its Mg : Ca ratio is already out of balance and that there is far too much Calcium and far too less Magnesium in the blood stream. That means the body HAS to keep the Vitamin-D level that low because without enough Magnesium the body CAN’T convert CALCIDIOL into the Hormonal, ACTIVE form of D called CALCITRIOL.

So, what happens when the Storage Vitamin-D level (CALCIDIOL) get measured in studies and the same “experts” who are in charge for these “studies” give later the advice to treat this Vitamin-D “deficiency” (caused by Magnesium deficiency) with a synthetically derived (sheep-skin oil exposed to UV-B light) ACTIVE form of Hormone D (CALCITRIOL)?

What happens when those “experts” want to be smarter as mother nature, which already had rejected to produce more CALCITRIOL because the body did know that the IMPORTANT Mg : Ca ratio was out of balance and that it is EXTREME DANGEROUS to make this imbalance more worse!?

What will happen is, the active form of D (CALCITRIOL) eats up even more Magnesium. So, sooner or later the body will become a complete "Magnesium-Dessert" and unfortunately Magnesium is the only mineral which would be able to break this vicious circle of body tissue calcification (causing disease & death) by acting as natural Calcium Channel blocker and at the end the cells, the human body will die poisoned by Calcium overload.

On the other hand with a sufficient amount of Magnesium the body will be able to absorb enough natural Vitamin-D from the sun as human beings have absorbed it for thousands of years.
Go out in the sun, exercise, swim in the ocean or if not possible get your daily body rub with a Magnesium-Chloride salt solution and eat real food infused not just with this mineral but also with Vitamin-A & K, which are important co-factors for the proper Vitamin-D metabolism and not just your Cholesterol-, Hormone D-, Calcium- & Magnesium level will be fine!

References: Morley Robbins http://gotmag.org/
Dr. Mildred Seelig http://www.mgwater.com/Seelig/Magnesium ... ndex.shtml

Enjoy,
:)
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