Dr Freedman: CCSVI no less than a cult

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby CCSVIhusband » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:29 pm

Why don't you search Scorpion as the author of the post ... and find the topic "hey ladies and gentlemen" ... you can see for yourself he wrote it!



The same way I did.

It's on page 8 of the list of all of his posts ... and it's a topic he started ... and it's the first post in the thread.

Thanks and have a nice day!
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Postby Lyon » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:32 pm

CCSVIhusband wrote:By the way ... surprisingly you once said:

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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:36 am Post subject:
I think the most important thing that Joan and Marie have said through all of this is that once you identify a problem it would be foolish and irresponsible not to fix it.

From there you can only hope it provides benefits regarding MS but it sure's hell isn't going to hurt anything.

Best wishes to Mel in this pursuit.
I don't doubt that I did say that and I've never wished anything but the best to anyone pursuing treatment.

My being an "opponent" of CCSVI and wishing anyone other than the best is something you've dreamed up.
a younger and less wise Lyon wrote:From there you can only hope it provides benefits regarding MS but it sure's hell isn't going to hurt anything.
It's called "live and learn". I likely wouldn't repeat that considering what we've learned in the time since.

What can I say? I wasn't skeptical enough back then.....

CCSVIhusband wrote:scorpion
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:04 am Post subject: hey ladies and gentleman
Again, despite the info you provided, scorpion didn't make any posts between Oct 15, 2009 and Oct 19, 2009 as per the links I provided.
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Postby Kleiner » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:55 pm

Again, despite the info you provided, scorpion didn't make any posts between Oct 15, 2009 and Oct 19, 2009 as per the links I provided

It is on Oct 15th at 1:04 p.m. titled "Hey Ladies and Gentleman"...can we end this now...
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Re: Posting times

Postby NHE » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:12 pm

Posting times that appear with a specific post may vary depending on the settings in a member's profile.

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-71254.html#71254

Enough for now!


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Postby 1eye » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:42 pm

Well, at least it's not about Dr. Freedman any more. Oops, I spoke too soon. Threads are erupting like pimples. Oh, dear. Time for another rest from TiMS...

Got a nice letter from Dr. Zivadinov today saying Direct-MS has offered to match dollar for dollar, funds up to I think $150,000, received by Buffalo group this calendar year... Time to get out your benefit events, folks...
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
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Postby Cece » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:48 pm

Lyon wrote:
a younger and less wise Lyon wrote:From there you can only hope it provides benefits regarding MS but it sure's hell isn't going to hurt anything.
It's called "live and learn". I likely wouldn't repeat that considering what we've learned in the time since.

I winced a bit when I read that too. Not sure what risks people were aware of back then? It's not a statement I'd make now either and I am in the pro-CCSVI camp.
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Postby Lyon » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:18 pm

Cece wrote: I winced a bit when I read that too. Not sure what risks people were aware of back then? It's not a statement I'd make now either and I am in the pro-CCSVI camp.
True, and not to throw people off by my vacillating all over the chart but I'm not saying that eliminating stenosis isn't worth risk, but the point is that we don't know with certainty what the long/short term risks are or what/if any benefits there will be.

Additionally, even if benefit was certain, treatment isn't proving to be a one time deal and it's still being ascertained what the risks of repeated treatments are and if it's even possible to treat with any kind of permanency, ie... what exactly am I getting for the risk I'm accepting over the long haul?
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Postby Cece » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:24 pm

CCSVIhusband, just above your post, Lyon said that eliminating stenosis might be worth some risk. I agree with him on that. He said that we don't yet know what the risks or benefits are. I agree with him on that too, to an extent.

For personal experience, yes, I am highly looking forward to having that. But not everyone is ready to go for this and that's ok too.

I think for even Lyon to have made a statement that this sure as hell wouldn't hurt anyone says that this might have been what everyone thought back then? And now just a year later we are more informed about potential risks, as well as potential benefits, just from the spectrum of outcomes that our friends here have seen.
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:13 pm

If you disagree with someone, please succintly state why and let it go at that. Point, counterpoint, counter-counter point, etc. is not useful-- the reality is that after the first disagreement, you will rarely convince another of something they feel strongly about unless you have shocking new information to share. The drawn-out debates also turn people off from reading the messages in the first place. If you really have to get something off your chest, please send that person a Private Message-- there is no need to have a long argument in public.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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