Futility of the Autoimmune Orthodoxy in MS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Futility of the Autoimmune Orthodoxy in MS

Postby Blaze » Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:47 am

Here is a link to a fascinating editorial about the "false orthodoxy" of the autoimmune approach to research and treatment of MS. Peter O Behan of the Division of Neurosciences, Faculty of Medicine at the University of Glasgow says the "outcome of this misplaced creed has been truly catastrophic."

http://www.expert-reviews.com/doi/pdf/10.1586/ern.10.69

Yet, most MS research for decades has been directed to the autoimmune model, while neurology has been so quick to dismiss CCSVI.
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Postby PointsNorth » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:40 am

Resistance is Futile.

PN
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Postby pairOdime » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:42 am

Dr. Zamboni mentioned the Putnam dog study recently. He noted that at 3 months no MS in the dogs, 6 months no MS, but at 9 months ALL THE DOGS developed MS (at 19:20 in the presentation).

Commentary: Does chronic venous insufficiency play a role in ms pathogenesis?
<shortened url>

Putnam published these findings in the archive of neurology and psychiatry in 1937 (Dr. Zamboni mentions this point as well).
It's a paradigm shift
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Postby Mathd » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:59 pm

pairOdime wrote:Dr. Zamboni mentioned the Putnam dog study recently. He noted that at 3 months no MS in the dogs, 6 months no MS, but at 9 months ALL THE DOGS developed MS (at 19:20 in the presentation).

Commentary: Does chronic venous insufficiency play a role in ms pathogenesis?
<shortened url>

Putnam published these findings in the archive of neurology and psychiatry in 1937 (Dr. Zamboni mentions this point as well).


so a animal model of CCSVI that led to MS was built in 1937, was published?
could this be done again?? i'm not for testing on animals, but this can be a good thing to try, to prove the whole thing
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Postby Cece » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:09 pm

Mathd wrote:so a animal model of CCSVI that led to MS was built in 1937, was published?
could this be done again?? i'm not for testing on animals, but this can be a good thing to try, to prove the whole thing

Yes and yes.

His method was injecting lard into the veins. Not sure what route the current researchers went but I don't think they went that way. There has been a successful animal model of CCSVI (!), it is listed on presentation materials for an upcoming conference. No further details released but it's been rumored to be being researched at Stanford for a long time now.
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Postby orion98665 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

I thought this was interesting research papers by Putnam of the venus system and how it relates to MS.

http://www.ms-mri.com/history.php

http://csvi-ms.net/en/content/publicati ... #putnam37a
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Postby muse » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:29 am

Hi@, a new animal-model is around the corner, please look at the website of: http://www.isnvd.org/2010/11/annual-meeting-italy/
Best Arne

ISNVD ANNUAL MEETING
Major topics covered:

# Ultrasound and MR imaging in treatment planning
# The role of iron in MS and neurodegenerative disease
# Perfusion deficits and hypoxia and possible relationships to CCSVI

# NEW EVIDENCE of CCSVI in ANIMAL MODELS

# Related vascular problems:
- venous embriology
- idiopathic intracranial hypertension
- normotensive hydrocephalus,
- carotid surgery in stroke
# CCSVI treatment: procedure and neurological outcomes
# Genetic studies
# Plethysmography
# Flow dynamics: modeling the cerebral venous system

p.s. Brilliant article by Prof. Peter O Behan, University of Glasgow! “…Experimental allergic encephalomyelitis is … a true autoimmune disorder. It has been accepted as an animal model of multiple sclerosis … However, a false orthodoxy claiming that multiple sclerosis is an autoimmune disorder has developed and formed the present basis of treatment, drug trials and research. The outcome of this misplaced creed has been truly CATASTROPHIC…..”
"MS" doesn't exist! - CCSVI dx Nov.2009, 1. angio LVJ & RVJ June 2010, 2. angio RVJ April 2011, January 2012 2. restenosis, reversed after ~1 year intake of high dosage Magnesium only. ThisIsCCSVIinMS: http://tinyurl.com/nwy5x58
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Postby BELOU » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:58 pm

Mathd wrote:
pairOdime wrote:Dr. Zamboni mentioned the Putnam dog study recently. He noted that at 3 months no MS in the dogs, 6 months no MS, but at 9 months ALL THE DOGS developed MS (at 19:20 in the presentation).

Commentary: Does chronic venous insufficiency play a role in ms pathogenesis?
<shortened url>

Putnam published these findings in the archive of neurology and psychiatry in 1937 (Dr. Zamboni mentions this point as well).


so a animal model of CCSVI that led to MS was built in 1937, was published?
could this be done again?? i'm not for testing on animals, but this can be a good thing to try, to prove the whole thing



I watched the complete video. I have to say that the man is solid and knows his stuff. This guy is on a mission this is for sure, you can see it in his eyes.
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Re: Futility of the Autoimmune Orthodoxy in MS

Postby jgkarob » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:22 am

Blaze wrote:Here is a link to a fascinating editorial about the "false orthodoxy" of the autoimmune approach to research and treatment of MS. Peter O Behan of the Division of Neurosciences, Faculty of Medicine at the University of Glasgow says the "outcome of this misplaced creed has been truly catastrophic."

http://www.expert-reviews.com/doi/pdf/10.1586/ern.10.69

Yet, most MS research for decades has been directed to the autoimmune model, while neurology has been so quick to dismiss CCSVI.



Why are people paying attention to this doctor? Just because he writes what some of you want to read, it doesn't make his views accurate or correct. Read this article below from the BMJ.

http://ukpmc.ac.uk/articles/PMC1172073; ... 567EFEB5B0
492CC4.jvm1

Plus here's the opening sentence: "A UK judge has strongly criticised an
expert witness in a personal injury case, accusing him of misusing the works
of others, misrepresenting his critics, and abandoning any claim to
objectivity."

Perhaps "abandoning any claim to objectivity" is a habit formed of long
use???
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Postby Algis » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:24 am

Why are people paying attention to this doctor?


Maybe because he is one of the few who dare to question it?

That is the Essence of Science: Ask an impertinent question and you are on the way to a pertinent answer.

(Jac Bronowski = tho I'm not sure the exactitude of the quote and of the guy - Sorry I am getting too old, too tired and too sick 8) )
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