hypovolemia and CCSVI

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby cheerleader » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:39 pm

Hi one eye--
just want to clear up stuff and address your many great points.
this isn't about "thinning" the blood with water.
It's about blood volume, or the amount of blood circulating in the body at any given moment, which is 7-8% of the total body weight in a healthy adult. In unhealthy people, blood volume is much less.

Hypovolemia is a real condition in the chronically ill, immobile and aging, and leads to hypoperfusion of major organs. I've listed several papers on this thread related to low blood volume. Dehydration is one of the most serious contributors to hypovolemia. Inactivity is another.

The endothelial health program--a whole other topic, was created to deal with the serum issues my husband showed upon diagnosis. Specifically, high coagulation, SED rate, inflammation, jaundice, high liver enzymes and petechiae. The program, and all of the associated research on the endothelium, is now at www.ccsvi.org under "helping myself."

Temperature regulation and coagulation are a whole other thread.
Shear stress is also another great topic.

Thanks for starting another thread on the technicalities of viscosity of blood (which I have't even gotten into) There's obviously lots more to learn about blood!
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 5015
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Advertisement

Postby 1eye » Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:40 pm

Red blood cells are definitely part of the equation somehow. They do change viscosity and viscosity versus temperature and affect shear. Also they are (it is to be hoped) full of iron, which is implicated as well. It seems as if the study of blood will reward greatly.

Today I started one-a-day vitamins that have no iron. Maybe iron is not so bad after all? Someone mentioned the body's response to low oxygen is to produce more red blood. Wish I had more hard facts.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
User avatar
1eye
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2876
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Kanata, Ontario, Canada

Postby Cece » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:03 pm

1eye wrote:Someone mentioned the body's response to low oxygen is to produce more red blood.

That could explain some of the hypercoaguability in pwMS.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Postby Bethr » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:12 pm

There are quite a range of Polycythemias, genetic and secondary.
Hypovolemia is connected to "relative polycythemia", plasma volume.

One other thing that changed when I had blood taken was that I could tolerate heat again, and I sweated again. That was another one of the instant gains. For the last few years I've just stayed out of the sun, it made me feel lethargic, heavy and fatigued.

I'm now actually enjoying it again.
User avatar
Bethr
Family Elder
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby kc » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:08 pm

After giving birth in 1999 and during the birth I felt like my legs were being ripped from the inside out. I remember asking the nurse if this was normal and she said "No". I went down fast after birthing.
I have always had to drink water every hour or so.
Also when I have blood taken, I feel very weak afterwards and prior to ccsvi tx I would go into my "unconscious state".

I am 6 months out and I have had the best Christmas ever. My son and husband have been off for 9 days now (but who's counting?) AND I have been able to keep up with them with no problem.

You can also bet I am doing things I have not been able to do in like 12 years. My house is more organized and cleaner than ever.

God has smiled upon me and I wish the same for all of you.
Thank you God.

kc :D
User avatar
kc
Family Elder
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:00 pm

Postby cheerleader » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:03 am

Wanted to bump this thread, in light of Dr. Fox's NMMS funded research. It appears Dr. Fox has considered hydration an important part of CCSVI and is studying the affects of dehydration on blood flow....

.....the state of hydration of the subject (whether they drank adequate amounts of fluids) could impact results of several of the criteria used to determine CCSVI. They concluded that these complications may help explain the mixed results reported thus far related to CCSVI and MS, and they have added to their aims a study designed to evaluate the impact of hydration on CCSVI assessments.

http://www.nationalmssociety.org/news/n ... x?nid=5261

I'm not sure hydration or hypovolemia is going to change the reality of a truncular venous malformation and truly impact the diagnostic criteria of CCSVI (ie:reflux in the jugular veins or cerebral veins), but it may influence the amount of hypoperfusion thru the brain and cause collapse of jugular veins. In any event, I'm glad to see Dr. Fox looking at this aspect in his research. Blood volume is surely part of the equation. For more info, start at the top of this thread.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 5015
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby cheerleader » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:16 pm

So, I continue to read Dr. Fox's comments on hypovolemia and CCSVI with interest. I found it odd that he was interviewed as part of the Canadian meta-analysis press blitz today, especially since he is American, and has not published any studies on CCSVI...yet.

I've heard from many BNAC participants that it was made sure they were well-hydrated before testing. And I know Jeff was well hydrated before his Stanford venography, because he was concerned with flushing dye...he was drinking a lot before and after his MRV.

I originally brought up hypovolemia, because I thought hydration should be recommended as aftercare...not because I thought hypovolemia caused CCSVI....

Dr. Robert Fox, a neurologist at the Mellon Center for Multiple Sclerosis at the Cleveland Clinic, noted the blocked veins could be the result of dehydration. MS often affects the bladder and as a result MS patients often prefer to remain a bit dehydrated so that they don't have to constantly run off to the bathroom, Fox noted in an interview from Cleveland, Ohio.
That may cause veins to look different in an ultrasound, he said. But that doesn't mean opening the blockages will resolve the symptoms that plague MS patients.


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-a ... 80138.html

And, of course, Reuters and all the press pick up this new meta-analysis....which included studies that did not follow the Zamboni protocol. sigh,
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 5015
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby Cece » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:42 pm

so that they don't have to constantly run off to the bathroom, Fox noted in an interview from Cleveland, Ohio.

The quote I read used the word "shuffle" instead of run. I remember because I found it vaguely offensive.

That dehydration is affecting the measurement of CCSVI is a theory, and it's testable enough.

I think about my own MRV; there's no way for dehydration to have made the veins look wide all the way down to the dramatic cut-off where the stenoses were.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby 1eye » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:09 pm

Not ever having been pregnant disqualifies me, but I would have thought that while the baby is inside, everything including natural impulses to eat, drink and sleep right, all health systems must be in hyper-drive. Hormones, psychology, even sense of smell geared up for baby's benefit. Maybe the blood volume could be a therapy option.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
User avatar
1eye
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2876
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Kanata, Ontario, Canada

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby cheerleader » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:59 pm

1eye wrote:Not ever having been pregnant disqualifies me, but I would have thought that while the baby is inside, everything including natural impulses to eat, drink and sleep right, all health systems must be in hyper-drive. Hormones, psychology, even sense of smell geared up for baby's benefit. Maybe the blood volume could be a therapy option.


True, eye. Women do tend to lead healthier lifestyles while pregnant. I even gave up coffee (gasp!) and alcohol. But you got me thinking w/the hormones and blood point.... another interesting thing that happens in pregnancy is lots of women get varicose veins

The extra volume of blood you produce during pregnancy is essential to support two growing bodies. It does, however, put extra pressure on your blood vessels, especially the veins in your legs, which have to work against gravity to push all that extra blood back up to your heart. Add to that the pressure your burgeoning uterus puts on your pelvic blood vessels, and the vessel-relaxing effects of the extra progesterone your body is producing, and you have the perfect recipe for varicose veins.

http://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/s ... veins.aspx
Maybe the combo of the extra progesterone and extra blood opens up stenotic jugular and azygos veins? It's a thought....progesterone is one of the neurosteroids the U of Alberta researchers were looking at.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 5015
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby dania » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:44 am

Before Zamboni's discovery was made public I often wondered why pregnant women (with MS) symptoms disappeared. I aware that clinical trails on Estriol (one of the estrogens) were being done. Estriol is only produced in significant amounts during pregnancy. But with the discovery of CCSVI I thought, what other changes are going on?

http://www.ehow.com/about_4707241_vascu ... nancy.html

"During pregnancy, blood volume increases by approximately 50 percent. If the vascular system remained as it normally is, the increased volume of blood would cause dangerously high blood pressure. Fortunately, the body is able to compensate through vascular changes. During pregnancy, existing blood vessels become larger and stretchier to accommodate the increase in blood. Networks of new blood also appear throughout the body. Because blood vessels become softer and stretchier, and are often "overfilled," it is not uncommon for blood to leak into surrounding tissues."

This maybe of some interest on how to increase blood volume,
http://www.ehow.com/how_5366573_increas ... lasma.html
User avatar
dania
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: St Lazare Quebec

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby Cece » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:30 am

I felt terrible during my pregnancies. Perhaps, where it says that the body is able to compensate through vascular changes, that is enough to benefit people with moderate stenoses or azygous stenoses but not for people with severe jugular stenoses.

I find it easy to believe, though, that after each pregnancy, I was left with an improved vascular system and collaterals.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby dania » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:54 am

Cece wrote:I felt terrible during my pregnancies. Perhaps, where it says that the body is able to compensate through vascular changes, that is enough to benefit people with moderate stenoses or azygous stenoses but not for people with severe jugular stenoses.

I find it easy to believe, though, that after each pregnancy, I was left with an improved vascular system and collaterals.

Cece, you said you felt terrible during pregnancy. Can you elaborate what exactly was terrible? Was your "MS" symptoms worse or was it the pregnancy itself. We know some women have a hard time with pregnancy such not being able to keep food down etc.
User avatar
dania
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: St Lazare Quebec

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby Cece » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:35 am

Disabling fatigue and cognitive fog got even more disabling....

I can see that as the usual pregnancy symptoms heaped on top of my CCSVI/MS symptoms. I didn't see my foot drop improve, but I also didn't see it get worse. My vision worsened slightly during my second pregnancy and did not improve afterwards.

My appetite and sense of taste improved during pregnancies, as it did again immediately after my first venoplasty.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Re: hypovolemia and CCSVI

Postby Cece » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:59 pm

Image
As long as we are talking about Dr. Fox's view on ultrasounds, let me offer up my own images.
That white line blocking the flow is a fixed valve leaflet.
There is no amount of water-drinking that I could have done to make that leaflet move aside.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users