cod liver oil preventative for intimal hyperplasia in dogs

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

cod liver oil preventative for intimal hyperplasia in dogs

Postby Cece » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:05 pm

3 separate articles:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3974270
http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/conte ... ct/41/1/54
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3006901

Any thoughts? We've been discussing intimal hyperplasia in Dr. Cumming's thread.

Cod-liver oil rich in eicosapentaenoic acid, an unsaturated fatty acid, has been shown to inhibit platelet aggregation. To determine the effect of this acid on vein-graft intimal hyperplasia, 46 segments of undistended external jugular vein were interposed between the bilaterally divided femoral arteries of 26 mongrel dogs. The animals received a 2% cholesterol diet for 1 week before and 6 weeks after the operation. Eight control animals received the diet alone, eight received cod-liver oil containing 1.8 g of eicosapentaenoic acid daily, for 1 week before and 6 weeks after operation, and seven animals received 1.8 g of eicosapentaenoic acid daily for 6 weeks after operation. Intimal thickness was measured at 6 weeks with a Zeiss computerized interactive image analysing system from multiple cross-sections of vein graft; 395 +/- 10 measurements were made from each graft. The intima measured 4 +/- 0.2 micron (SEM) before implantation and increased to 83 +/- 10 micron in the controls. Eicosapentaenoic acid administered before and after operation reduced intimal hyperplasia to 24 +/- 2.5 micron (p less than 0.001) and to 30 +/- 5 micron in animals receiving eicosapentaenoic acid after operation only (p less than 0.001). These results indicate that the acid inhibits intimal hyperplasia of canine vein grafts but that it is more effective when given before operation (p less than 0.01).

Cod liver oil is one of the supplements I currently take, it's in Joan's endothelial health program (located on ccsvi.org).

Please note that this is research on dogs and not humans, so we are extrapolating some.
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Postby SaintLouis » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:23 pm

Very interesting find. I stopped taking CLO as I could not find one without the high Vitamin A. Maybe I should re-research that again.
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EPA

Postby hwebb » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:27 pm

well...if it's eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) you're after...it can be sourced elsewhere - other fish oil tablets, in actual oily fish such as atlantic salmon, sardines, etc.

Cod Liver Oil (CLO) has lots of vitamin D and vitamin A...so you have to be careful to not overconsume these. The fish oils contain a significant amount of saturated fat also (around 30% of the tablet). Some people use altrnative Omega-3 supplements for this reason (ground flaxseed, or algae-derived DHA...only around 10% saturated fat).
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EPA

Postby hwebb » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:35 pm

wonder what the dogs weighed ("mongrel" dogs...not very descriptive)? If they are taking 1.8g EPA...then what does this imply a person needs?
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Postby Leonard » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:11 am

I take cod liver oil, 5 ml per day, from a bottle on a spoon in the orange juice in the morning, already for 3-4 years now. For better or for worse..

My best reference for the role of fats: www.takingcontrolofmultiplesclerosis.org
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Fish Oil Better Than Cod Liver Oil

Postby MarkW » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:01 am

I suggest that Fish Oil is better than Cod Liver Oil as there are no problems with excess vitamin A (excess vitamin D is not a problem for pwMS).
I take 10ml of 'Omega Juice' a brand of fish oil with 1800mg of EPA and 1200mg of DHA in 10ml. Its cheap and could benefit my brain and heart. There are no 'proven' reasons for taking Omega 3 for MS, just indications. I am 70kg so probably weigh more than a dog.

MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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A, D...EPA ?

Postby hwebb » Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:36 pm

that's a problem with this dog study...you don't know if the EPA, vitamin A or vitamin D is imparting the beneficial effect. Would love to read a study which used regular fih oil.
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Re: A, D...EPA ?

Postby Cece » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:21 pm

hwebb wrote:that's a problem with this dog study...you don't know if the EPA, vitamin A or vitamin D is imparting the beneficial effect. Would love to read a study which used regular fih oil.

Since it says EPA is known to have an antiplatelet effect, I'm going to go with that it's the EPA.

I have my Cod Liver Oil supplements right here, they have 1,250 IU (25% daily value) of the Vitamin A. Then in my regular multivitamin there is 3500 IU of vitamin A (70% DV). Too much?
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Postby Cece » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:00 pm

ok, googling "fish intimal hyperplasia" in google scholar and hoping for humans netted this:
http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/13/1/184.abstract
which puts the dose of fish oil at 4000 mg in a randomized study on thrombosis in grafts

Cardiovascular effects of fish oils: beyond the platelet
Journal of the American Health Association
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/82/2/624.pdf

negative results here:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content ... ;94/7/1553

positive results:
Nephron. 1990;55(4):445-7.

Fish oil to prevent intimal hyperplasia and access thrombosis.
Diskin CJ, Thomas CE, Zellner CP, Lock S, Tanja J.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2202923

and in case a baboon is a better match than a mongrel dog:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content ... /87/3/1017

I'm cautious about taking supplements around the time of the procedure but having fish for dinner is starting to sound tasty.
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Postby DrCumming » Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:02 pm

There is some very interesting stuff from a Dr. William Land on you tube about omega 3 vs 6.

I had my 3 vs 6 level measure at EHC. See http://www.idealomegatest.com/?page_id=14

This is one of those areas that gets no press and no research $. Why? No drugs required, no money to be made.

Anyways, I have greatly reduced my meat intake, up'ed my consumption of fish and now take fish oil supp. Going to recheck my ratio's in a few months.
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blood flow

Postby hwebb » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:19 am

I eat oily fish such as eel, atlantic salmon, and sardines (this seems the best). On days that I dont, I supplement using an algae-based omega 3 supplement. It definitely helps my blood to run freely - as monitored daily during my copaxone injection time.
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