I think I found it: This Is MS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

I think I found it: This Is MS

Postby Leonard » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:12 am

It is hypothesised that multiple sclerosis (MS) is caused by an insufficient glucose level in the brain or parts of the brain.

Patients with MS are consuming more sugar than the average person, to get it elevated in our blood streams, to try and meet the unmet needs of the brain. And the result of greater sugar consumption is a greater prevalence of chronic yeast infections and symptoms as candida . Also the faster recovery of motor functions of MS patients on the intake of sugar/glucose, in particular in the beginning, would seem to suggest a glucose link. Furthermore, it is an explanation for the fast recovery of some patients post- ccsvi liberation and a post-liberation increase in dreams and REM sleep, since REM has high glucose demands.

The blood flow delivers oxygen and glucose to the very hungry brain as well as other nutrients, and takes away waste products. A lack of glucose puts the neurons in a dormant state; they become under-nourished. The consequence is demyelination and, if seriously under-nourished for a longer period of time, myelin and neuronal death. When this happens, the microglia jump on this and clean up the mess. Once they get out of the BBB, the T-cells jump on them and we start see the scars and the inflammation. That is when MS shows up.

Why are the cells under-nourished? There are at least two reasons: iron deposits on the vessel walls that inhibit the transport of glucose across the BBB and; insulin resistance that inhibits this same transport of glucose. The iron deposition may develop at a young age as a result of problems with the drainage, its origin is probably pre-congenital. The insulin resistance may develop at a later age. MS is probably a consequence of both, in a wide variety of cases among the population. One effect may be a more important for an early age onset and the other for a later age onset. The double peak in the age of onset of MS would indeed suggest the possibility of such underlying mechanism [there are two peaks on the age of onset graph at 25-30 and 40-45 http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive ... 01256.html ].

Stenoses in the veins draining the brain and spinal column (ccsvi, Zamboni) cause refluxes in the deep cerebral veins and will lead to iron deposition on the vessel walls (you can see this on 7T MRI) and this inhibits glucose transport through the affected parts of the BBB. Iron deposition is a normal phenomenon in organs and limbs in case of problems with the drainage that has been known for a long time. By opening up the blockages in the veins by angioplasty, the blood flow can restore to normal, and eventually as the iron is taken away the BBB function may restore to normal. The increased blood flow during pregnancy and stop of MS progression adds to the plausibility of the concept. The low fat/Swank diet and the use of blood thinners/anti-clotting (effect Copaxone?) may also help improve the blood flow with the same positive effects.

Some persons may already have a fairly weak glucose condition in their brain due to the low blood flow through the head and the iron depositions. At mid age then, the insulin resistance starts to develop and the glucose transport will be further weakened. The Vitamine D relationship, well known in MS, plays its role here.

As studies found, higher levels of Vitamine D (childhood and/or during pre-congenital phase) may delay the onset of MS a bit because of lower intra-cellular calcium levels where insulin resistance and problems with glucose transport will develop a bit later on. Conversely, lower levels of Vitamine D will elevate intra-cellular calcium levels where insulin resistance develops earlier on and thus impaired glucose transport across the BBB will develop earlier.

This may explain the differences found among MS patients and a control group that were screened for ccsvi: people who have stenoses and therefore a low blood flow but high Vitamine D will still provide enough glucose to their neurons and myeline, and therefore will not experience the MS symptoms, or at the very least not as quick as those with low Vitamine D. The prevalence of diabetes type 2 in MS patients would further suggest a link with the insulin resistance. It is also known that this insulin resistance develops long before the signs of diabetes become apparent and the diabetes type 2 is diagnosed, further adding to this part of the hypothesis.

Studies have also found that a low-glucose condition causes or at the very least it is likely to cause demyelination. The process of demyelination is already well underway before diabetes type 2 shows up.

Also it ties in with the effect of heat on glucose in the bloodstream (it fluctuates more wildly; diabetics have to account for this in the summer) and, if overheated, the brain will endure worse damage from this lack of glucose.


What lessons may we draw:

1. get the veins opened and restore the normal blood flow. This will increase the volume of blood, and improve the cerebral hypoxia side of the equation, and the cerebral hypoglycemia side. The iron deposits may be taken away (?)

2. if appropriate and confirmed, start taking (diabetes type 2?) medication early on to overcome insulin resistance and improve the glucose transport across the BBB. And also, get the blood sugar level back to normal.
Last edited by Leonard on Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:39 am

Leo--
this may very well be part of MS for many, and it's a good theory. Well done! Lyndacarol has been writing about this issue with glucose for many years on here.

The thing is, it will not be an issue for others. Jeff's glucose numbers are spot on, not an issue for him in the least. No candida, no sugar cravings, no glucose intolerance, etc. What he did have was hypoperfusion and slowed blood flow to his brain. What he has now is good blood flow and no brain atrophy and shrinking lesions. Hypoperfusion is noted in MS brains, and blood transports not only glucose, but oxygen. Organs cannot survive without adequate blood. They can also be damaged by endothelial dysfunction and deposition of iron and other particles into tissue.

We'll know more about the mechanism of damage in the coming years...but even with all the research I've been reading, I don't think I'm ready to say "This is MS" about any one theory....there's so much more to learn. And we need more doctors and researchers studying this without pharma influence/money involved.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Asher » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:57 pm

We'll know more about the mechanism of damage in the coming years...but even with all the research I've been reading, I don't think I'm ready to say "This is MS" about any one theory....there's so much more to learn. And we need more doctors and researchers studying this without pharma influence/money involved.

Thank you Cheerleader, you articulated what I was, clumsily, trying to say. Asher
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Postby Ruthless67 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:31 pm

There is NO question for me that sugar consumption effects my MS fatigue symptoms and some others symptoms as well.

But I think sugar, and maybe Candida albicans, fed by over sugar consumption, are like CCSVI, in that, they are a all piece of the puzzle that has been labeled Multiple Sclerosis.

My mother, father, one sister & one brother all have or had type 2 diabetes. That's one of the resons I watch my sugar intake so closely.

Also Dr. Dake says I have congenital malformed valves. That doesn't surprise me. Mom was sick when she gave birth to my brother and had to stay in the hospital to have a kidney removed. Then just 3 months later she was pregnant with me. The doctor wanted to abort me as my mother already had 3 young ones at home to care for and was so weak.

But she didn't, so here I am. I know she didn't get much, if any vitamin D while carrying me and probably didn't eat well during that time either. So health issues on my part make sense.

One question I've had about Candida & CCSVI is, I wonder if mom had it and if it could be passed from her to me and possibly a link to the congenital malformations I developed in-vetro? Sure seems plausable in my case.


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Postby Cece » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:17 pm

You know I'm onboard, Leonard, although I see it as one part of the full picture. :)
Conversely, lower levels of Vitamine D will elevate intra-cellular calcium levels where insulin resistance develops earlier on and thus impaired glucose transport across the BBB will develop earlier.

I need to read more on this, it is a definite find.
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Postby elyse_peace » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:47 pm

Lora,
I am so happy that your mother made that choice! I enjoy your posts. But I'm sorry that you are ill.
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ccsvi

Postby blossom » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:38 pm

ever since i first found tims after i got the nerve to post i voiced that ms as they want to call our symptoms, i felt because of my personal experience, was being lumped into one name and main stream focused too much on trying or claiming to have a "drug" on the horizon or "yeah" it's on the market now and it "could help "some" that have ms "their now lumped into one"illness. and the amount of money spent on research actually getting nowhere as far as actually coming up with a definite cause or cure not to forget the trillions made on these drugs ought to the wake up call "which ccsvi" has brought as far as i'm concerned a BIG WAKE UP CALL not only to mainstream but to a lot of us.

leonard's post makes a lot of sence-and will apply to some of us-what cheer posts is as always keeping us up on the latest with ccsvi-which will help some of us and everybody else that contributs their finds and theories to me, and maybe only me, proves more and more our symptoms that they named ms have different beginnings and will take different approaches as far as treatments and i dream of a cure.

we are far from a bunch of dummies on this site as well as everyone else in the world that has been branded with this label ms. but we do need the good doctors, "working in every field" and researchers to stop the tunnel vision, really listen to our histories our questions, they might just find that we know a "little" about our bodies and they might just be able to help us more if they quit branding us. we are of different brands and for some ccsvi will be, when they get it down pat, maybe the total answer. for sure, we know that the blood flowing right can be nothing but a good thing and has helped many with different symptoms.

i was told yrs. ago i had hyperglycemia. so, leonad's post just could be part of the puzzle in my personal journey through hell. i hope we all find the shoe that fits but i think there will be groups of us wearing different styles and sizes home.
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Postby DippyD » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:15 am

Very interesting! I've often wondered about this and not known what to do about it.. When I first went to A&E with what was to be diagnosed as MS 4 weeks later, my blood sugar was zero... I've often wondered whether there was a link, but it's not one the hospital pursued so I just bowed down to their 'superior knowledge'... :?

Boy do I know better than that last statement now!
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Postby LR1234 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:21 am

I have been diagnosed with high insulin levels (via one of those extended glucose tests)
I went through a terrible MS period after I tried to cut out all sugar.
I basically starting getting major hypoglycemic attacks and I was like a zombie.
I have now gone back onto eating sugar and I feel much better.

I think you are right Leonard that not enough glucose getting to the neuron ets is a problem for as MSers as was demonstrated when I cut out sugar.

Maybe Metformin is the way forward for people like me and then I can cut the sugar down again and not feed the vicious cycle.
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Postby TvG » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:33 am

Most likely 'MS' is more a collection of different pathologies resulting in the same loss of neurons/myelin (and symptoms). As long as we keep searching for 1 overall explanation for 'MS' I don't think it will be found...

Asuming that CCSVI plays a huge role in breaking down the BBB as the main cause of 'all types' of MS, there are a couple of options:
MS-A: CCSVI > BBB > Toxins (iron...) > neuron/myelin death (Dr. Z)
MS-B: CCSVI > BBB > Lack of O2 > neuron/myelin death
MS-C: CCSVI > BBB > Lack of glucose > neuron/myelin death
MS-D: CCSVI > BBB > Lack of waste drainage > ...
MS-E: CCSVI > BBB > AI(T-)cells enter CNS > reactive on myelin protein (aBC theory) > myelin death
MS-F: CCSVI > BBB > ...

Combinations of these are most likely.
Still a lot to discover, thanks Leonard for this very interesting theory!
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Postby Leonard » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:27 am

Insulin resistance is marked by an increase in the secretion of insulin, i.e., excess insulin. This seems to gain importance in particular if seen in connection with the high sugar consumption among MS patients!

It might well be that MS with an onset at mid age and diabetes type 2 are two sides of the same coin. In any event, the symptoms of both diseases show a remarkable similarity, which looks more than just a coincidence.
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/neuropathies/
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/conten ... 984.1.full


@ everyone who is interested, please have a look at

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-15083-da ... sc-15.html

The postings on this page explain how we got to the low glucose hypothesis.

thank you to all.
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Postby DippyD » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:48 am

Thank you Leonard for the info and subsequent links. It is really interesting, makes sense to me and something I'd like to pursue.
To summarise, What would your advise be with regard to the necessary steps to take?.. How do we get tested / find out if this is an issue for ourselves personally and what would your advise be regarding lifestyle changes? (I apologise if you've covered this already).. Which sugars, in which types of food, are good? Eating chocolate and cookies sounds a great option :lol: , having cut back on both since MS diagnosis (for 'health' reasons, not weight.. I'm quite a physical light-weight)! It's a minefield to know what are the 'right' things to eat / avoid with MS and I appreciate that individuals' own constitutions vary, but if you have some general advise, it would be appreciated...

Thanks in anticipation!
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Postby Leonard » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:14 am

DippyD wrote:Thank you Leonard for the info and subsequent links. It is really interesting, makes sense to me and something I'd like to pursue.
To summarise, What would your advise be with regard to the necessary steps to take?.. How do we get tested / find out if this is an issue for ourselves personally and what would your advise be regarding lifestyle changes? (I apologise if you've covered this already).. Which sugars, in which types of food, are good? Eating chocolate and cookies sounds a great option :lol: , having cut back on both since MS diagnosis (for 'health' reasons, not weight.. I'm quite a physical light-weight)! It's a minefield to know what are the 'right' things to eat / avoid with MS and I appreciate that individuals' own constitutions vary, but if you have some general advise, it would be appreciated...

Thanks in anticipation!


I am a civil engineer by training, not a medical doctor.
Therefore, I would like to abstain from giving individual advice.
But I can tell you what I did: got the veins checked by venography; they showed stenoses which have been opened by angioplasty. If there is diabetes in the family or MS diagnoses above say 35, which is the case for me, get you insulin resistance and blood sugar tested. Personally I haven't done the latter yet but it is high on my to do list.
Last edited by Leonard on Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Cece » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:44 am

I haven't gotten back to this but it makes sense to look at what lifestyle or diet changes can moderate blood glucose:

eating protein
ground cinnamon helps moderate glucose levels

Exercise would help in the long run but in the moment it might use up the glucose in the blood.
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Postby Leonard » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:17 am

Cece, if it really shows that diabetics is a factor, we should seek and get professional advice. Diet will definitely be part of it. Leo
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