CCSVI & re-stenosis: are these symptoms of trauma?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

CCSVI & re-stenosis: are these symptoms of trauma?

Postby RedPepper » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:11 am

Someone suggested that I should post this here..............

I've been reading up lately on how trauma causes narrowed veins and is strongly associated with MS and other neuro. conditions. Trauma, whether a once-off catastrophic event or chronic and accumulated, causes changes to biological process. Normally that change should be resolved in a short time and the nervous system return to a base-line. But in some circumstances, the resolution doesn't happen.

"Always on"
The physical state of the person is what would define trauma, according to Peter Levine. The nervous system can become hyper-aroused and hyper-sensitive, he says.

If the nervous system is stuck on high-alert, 'telling' blood vessels to "Constrict! Constrict! Constrict!" In which case, forcing the vein open by venoplasty would/could be a temporary release but the walls of the blood vessels would still be getting orders to constrict. Could this explain the re-stenosis? Is CCSVI an expression of trauma?



PS: I have not been a regular visitor to TIMS. I've been reading lots here today on trauma and MS! I see I should have come here first!
Last edited by RedPepper on Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby blossom » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:10 pm

i do not think you are being insensitive at all. what you are pointing out makes a lot of sence to me.

for myself, and i'm sure i'm not alone with this. trauma from injury, followed by emotional trauma such as betrayal by people you trusted, financial trauma, and just dealing with a body that no longer connects to the person you once were. these things and in combination is a real overload. whether pressure on the veins perhaps from the injury has things out of whack so even if you get your veins opened-how can they stay opened? then the added emotional stresses.

i remember seeing a lady on oprah's show who had ms and got well. she said that her neuro. had told her-all my ms patients are somewhat alike. in what way she asked-he said you all are high strung and worry worts. she changed her way of thinking and improved her diet and got well.
i guess she found a way to turn off her alarm.

i feel for myself, the fall "trauma" started this. and life's stresses added.
it is very hard to pull the plug on that alarm..butt that's not to say it is not doable.

the trauma i'm hoping for help from the chiro. or wherever his findings lead me. for the stress-since for 20 yrs. i kinda feel like a cat on a hot tin roof and although i level some here and there---it might just be time for a senior to have a doobee or a brownie now and again. but i'd rather be abe to unlock it myself but it hasn't worked so far.

glad you brought these points up. they make sence. and they do not need a pile of documents to prove common sence.

i think in my case i put the cart before the horse when i got ccsvi treatment. down the road-who knows-in the meantime the doors should be kept wide open. and i hope and about time the whole picture is looked at.
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Postby RedPepper » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:12 pm

Blossom, thank you for that wonderful reply. Thank you!
Before I read your reply, though, I have edited my post down to nearly nothing because I felt big fear! Sorry. I will replace the bits that you refer to.

Yes, I had a head and neck trauma at 18 when I crashed my bike and broke my face twice. And there were other patterns too, a lot like those you describe.
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Re: CCSVI & re-stenosis: are these symptoms of trauma?

Postby Cece » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:44 pm

RedPepper wrote:If the nervous system is stuck on high-alert, 'telling' blood vessels to "Constrict! Constrict! Constrict!" In which case, forcing the vein open by venoplasty would/could be a temporary release but the walls of the blood vessels would still be getting orders to constrict. Could this explain the re-stenosis? Is CCSVI an expression of trauma?

The consensus seems to be that CCSVI is something we are born with. But it also seems logical that trauma might worsen things or set off a cascade of reactions. The restenosis has been explained as being elastic recoil, which is like what happens with a rubber band when it is stretched; it retakes its former shape. It happens in other veins too when they are angioplastied, in people with other conditions.
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Postby blossom » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:45 pm

cece, i understand where they and you are coming from. and,in some cases that would apply. but, say with a trauma, the vein is one long vein or look at it like a rubber band, say the trauma leaves this rubber band in a person where it is kinda pinched or pressure on it -that rubber band would not react to movement the same as as if it were freed up. or if that rubber band was pinched or pressure put on it where you couldn't get to it and you were trying to get it stretched out in the area that you can get to hopeing that you can get the rubberband to evenly stretch-then it would go back to where it was because how could it not. then in the middle of this rubber band we have our blood flow--which can not possibly get to where it is going with out being impaired. unless the pressure upstream or down stream is fixed or in some cases where the actual ballooning goes on if there is any kind of pressure that is not addressed first-how could anything but what they call recoil happen? not to forget that the wrong pressure here and there on the spine could be screwing with our spinal fluid and nerves.

then add the say mental stress-say the fight or fleight mode our body comes equipped with--kinda is a disaster waiting to happen. it sure would not help. i know for a fact with myself everytime if i got really stressed i would get worse. i would be so stressed the blood pressure jumped everywhere. this all does a number on our veins and arteries.

controlling it is something i've tried to do but life is tough and has a way of screwing with us that makes it hard. just when you think you are a little in control, here it comes again.

hey, that brownie is sounding better and better.
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From my discussions with MS patients

Postby Gordon » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:54 pm

One of my friends had one of his IJV completely closed off. Hit with a Hockey puck, and MS started a year later. He had angio and opened it up compltely, He went on the mend the next day.

The Neuro wanted to put him on a high dosage of Chemo to arrest his MS. Idiot

Seond friend had only one IJV and a massive collateral growth on the other side.

Hard to believe that Trauma made a IJV disapear but??

My personal experience was that I was always high strung, and after I got food poisoning in Jamaica really really bad, MS started.
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Re: CCSVI & re-stenosis: are these symptoms of trauma?

Postby eric593 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:05 pm

I would think that the constriction reaction you speak of would be more systemic and global affecting all veins whereas CCSVI and re-stenosis relate only to small, specific segments of the veins, particularly valves, not to generalized constriction of all veins as a global event.

I think that the doctors are quite comfortable with their explanations of the causes of re-stenosis, those being elastic recoil due to the elastic structure of the vein wall, recoil restricted to the site of angioplasty, intimal hyperplasia or thrombus.

The original cause of CCSVI appears to be congenital, although certainly physical structures can also cause blockages in the veins like in the case of Wheelchair Kamikaze and others. The chiro upright doctor seems to be helping some people here address some of those mechanical issue.
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