They could not even get it right for one person in the study?I am not sure how many ways there are to hold a ultrasound probe but you would think they would get it right, even if by accident one time!patientx wrote:I don't know about the present study proving or disproving anything (no one study proves or disproves anything). But, if people are going to try to discredit these studies, I would suggest they read things a little more carefully.From "The value of cerebral Doppler venous haemodynamics in the assessment of multiple sclerosis," Zamboni, et al:Cece wrote:They measured the flow in the jugulars after 3 - 5 seconds of apnea. What effect would the breath-holding have on the flow? It's not quite Valsalva, as was mistakenly used in the Doepp study, but the German authors discuss the valve insufficiency of the other sort...The doctors who co-wrote the Doepp study were not "mistaken." They performed the Valsalva test in addition to Dr. Zamboni's other 5 tests, with the idea that maybe IJV insufficiency was more pronounced in MS patients (which they did not find).The physiologic direction of venous flow was assessed during a short period of apnea following a normal exhalation, as previously reported
Funny thing is, in his papers, Dr. Zamboni refers many times to studies done by the authors on the Doepp study (Valdueza, Schreiber, etc.). But when these doctors perform their own study, suddenly they don't know how to hold an ultrasound probe.
yet again
Not only that, to be sure I was getting it right, I emailed Florin Doepp, who confirmed this for me.concerned wrote:You've explained this so many times I don't know how posters here can keep blatantly spreading misinformation about it.patientx wrote:
The doctors who co-wrote the Doepp study were not "mistaken." They performed the Valsalva test in addition to Dr. Zamboni's other 5 tests, with the idea that maybe IJV insufficiency was more pronounced in MS patients (which they did not find).
Dr. Sclafani's interpretation of the Doepp study:
www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-128414.html#128414
www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-139356.html#139356
www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-128414.html#128414
www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-139356.html#139356
Dr. Zamboni's response to the Doepp research:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=459397222210
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=459397222210
- DrCumming
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What really surprises me is the the title of the article. Like they are gloating that they have debunked the theory of CCSVI. Weird. Very unprofessional.
Amazing the editors allowed it.
At this point, the only thing that matters is the outcomes of the various trials underway. These reports about MR or US not finding CCSVI do not answer the question if jugular venoplasty improves quality of life and prevents or slows disease progression in pwMS.
Amazing the editors allowed it.
At this point, the only thing that matters is the outcomes of the various trials underway. These reports about MR or US not finding CCSVI do not answer the question if jugular venoplasty improves quality of life and prevents or slows disease progression in pwMS.
You feel the same way about articles that claim CCSVI cures MS?DrCumming wrote:What really surprises me is the the title of the article. Like they are gloating that they have debunked the theory of CCSVI. Weird. Very unprofessional.
Amazing the editors allowed it.
At this point, the only thing that matters is the outcomes of the various trials underway. These reports about MR or US not finding CCSVI do not answer the question if jugular venoplasty improves quality of life and prevents or slows disease progression in pwMS.
Emotionally loaded titles do not belong on studies published in peer reviewed professional medical journals...here is the title.
Odd that the editors would permit this title for an article published in a peer reviewed medical journal.The perfect crime? CCSVI not leaving a trace in MS
It's a paradigm shift
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It seems quite a few respectful scientists suspect that CCSVI docs seeing these venous malformations might just be seeing normal variations in our anatomy.sou wrote:Absolutely. Angioplasty has the potential to cure CCSVI only. But CCSVI non-existent? Coming from respectful scientists? lol Roses are red, violets are blue, the Earth is flat and the birds never flew.scorpion wrote:You feel the same way about articles that claim CCSVI cures MS?
If 1 in 4 healthy controls have CCSVI, what do they need to be cured of?