International Society for Neurovascular Disease (March 2011)

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Cece » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:34 am

Nunzio wrote:Unless you were talking about this other test::oops:
Penile plethysmography (PPG), or "phallometry", is a controversial type of plethysmograph that measures changes in blood flow in the penis.[

:lol:
nope, not that one
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Postby Nunzio » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:50 pm

Cece wrote:
CuriousRobot wrote:
Nunzio wrote:I do not know how you came up with this one.
Plethysmography is the recording of changes of body volume.
It is used to check your lung function or, more interesting for us, the blood flow.
Cervical means neck so they are talking about an instrument that check blood flow in the neck.


Noninvasive measurement of central venous pressure by neck inductive plethysmography.

http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/conte ... l.pdf+html

Page four of this document: Plethysmography as neck collar.

yes - a neck collar contraption that measures blood flow - sorry, I wasn't very clear last night! There are pictures of it in the article CuriousRobot linked, if it's the same as the article we had before, and it is a bizarre looking thing but exciting if it delivers more accurate or reproducible results than the other imaging methods thus far

Thanks Cece and Curious, now it make more sense.Not having seen the article before I was lost and almost bought a collar at a pet store to use it for that purpose.
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Postby sou » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:28 pm

Cece wrote:With you out, the only TIMS members that I know of going are DrCumming and drsclafani.


Count me in! I 'll be there, too!
Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
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Postby MrSuccess » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:01 pm

not 100 % sure ..... but I think this conference is closed to the Public

You have to be invited ...... and be a medical Professional .

I would like to see some media presence ....... Accelerated Cure perhaps ? :idea:

This is what is needed - white coat talking to white coat .

I predicted long ago ...... that the WC 2 WC ...... is what is needed.

And now ..... the day has arrived.





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Postby Cece » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:38 pm

MrSuccess wrote:this is exceptional . the list of speakers is amazing.

It's better than ISET. Although ISET was broad and reached more IRs unfamiliar with CCSVI. But the answers we need are going to come from these guys, digging deep.
Nunzio wrote:OCT is a technique that can image live tissue similar to what ultrasound does but with much higher resolution.
It is like looking at a pathology slide under the microscope but with live tissue.
The resolution is so great that in patient with MS we can often quantify a thinning of the nerve fiber layer near the optic nerve specially if the patient had optic neuritis in the past and that tissue is only few microns thick.
Here of course they are referring to intravascular OCT and the bottom line is: if you like IVUS you will love Intravascular OCT.
To be applied to the vascular tissue they use infrared wavelength to overcome the opacity of the medium.

thanks Nunzio - lots to think about
sou wrote:
Cece wrote:With you out, the only TIMS members that I know of going are DrCumming and drsclafani.


Count me in! I 'll be there, too!

Will you really? How exciting. You'll report back?
ErikaSlovakia wrote:He Cece!
This is my own OCT test done 3 days after the procedure: http://sofista.sk/documents/Erika,%20OC ... towice.jpg
Erika

interesting, thanks for sharing, Erika!
esta in my "cece's turn" thread said Iwas the North American Erika - I took that as a high compliment
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Postby Cece » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:50 pm

Nunzio wrote:Thanks Cece and Curious, now it make more sense.Not having seen the article before I was lost and almost bought a collar at a pet store to use it for that purpose.

:lol:
you have been cracking wise lately
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Postby ErikaSlovakia » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:18 am

Cece wrote:
ErikaSlovakia wrote:He Cece!
This is my own OCT test done 3 days after the procedure: http://sofista.sk/documents/Erika,%20OC ... towice.jpg
Erika

interesting, thanks for sharing, Erika!
esta in my "cece's turn" thread said Iwas the North American Erika - I took that as a high compliment

Oh, I did not plan to be... I do not even know how to name it.
I only wanted to start or maybe push something important. This is why I would do it again and again. I am not sorry for anything. It is not important how I feel (btw not very good). At least I can test the stent. It is still OK. I had venography in January.
I have been following whole your story North American Erika :)
European Erika :wink:
Aug. 7, 09 Doppler Ultras. in Poland, left Jugul. valve problem, RRMS since 1996, now SPMS,
- Nov.3,09: one stent in the left jug. vein in Katowice, Poland, LDN, never on DMDs
- Jan. 19, 11: control venography in Katowice - negative but I feel worse
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:46 am

sou wrote:
Cece wrote:With you out, the only TIMS members that I know of going are DrCumming and drsclafani.


Count me in! I 'll be there, too!


Sou, that's wonderful. You're attending as a medical student...maybe you can write up the "notes" and post them on TIMS like I did for Bologna in '09? That way we can all share in the excitement. I know we'd all appreciate that!
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Rokkit » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:01 am

Yeah, Sou, and if you could make a post about 5 mins after the mouse study presentation (excuse me, murine) that would work well for me. :D
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Postby Cece » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:18 pm

if you brought a recording device and livestreamed it, sou, that would also be acceptable....

It sounds fabulous, I hope you have a good time and lots of learning.

16.10 > 16.20 Clinical disability and venous vessel pathology
in multiple sclerosis - M. Denislic Slovenia

I noticed this one, it might be about the question we all have: which veins, when obstructed, cause which sorts of disability. (Azygous=spinal lesions, bilateral jugular stenosis="Cerebral" MS?)
10.30 > 10.45 The limits of MRV
R. Zivadinov USA

Dr. Zivadinov is definitely pulling away from the use of MRV for imaging CCSVI.
10.15 > 10.30 Catheter Venography
R. Galeotti Italy

Dr. Galeotti is the only IR, having worked with Dr. Zamboni from the beginning of CCSVI, with the most years of experience in CCSVI.
11.30 > 12.15
KEYNOTE LECTURE
PRESIDENT P. Zamboni Italy

Any society with Dr. Zamboni as president is a good society.
Neurovascular Mechanisms in Neurodegenerative Diseases
B. Zlokovic USA

"neurovascular mechanisms" - I'd have to hear this one to know what exactly that means. This is mechanisms of action, so ways in which the brain can be affected by the vasculature?
13.30 > 13.45 Iron and oxidative stress in AD
C. Iadecola USA

Not much mention in the programme of diseases other than MS and CCSVI, but here's Alzheimer's, and I hope our guys solve that one too. No pressure.
13.45 > 14.00 Iron and veins in MS
R. Zivadinov USA

This fits with research he was doing even before CCSVI came along. Interesting stuff.
14.00 > 14.15 Mitochondria dysfunction and differentiation of oligodendrocytes. Is iron a candidate factor? - P. Pinton Italy

A little over my head..."differentiation of oligodendrocytes"?
16.25 > 16.35 A Prospective Analysis of Endovascular
Treatments of CCSVI in MS - M. Mehta USA

His study was IRB approved back in August, but I wouldn't expect him to have any results this soon?
16.45 > 16.55 Evaluating the presence of abnormal venous
vasculature in a non-MS population using CT angiography
K. Agarwal USA

this is CT scans of the vasculature, I'm not expecting much from that as an imaging method
8.45 > 9.00 Hypoxia-like aspect of MS B. Trapp USA

I would be interested in this, though! I believe my MS has had a lot of hypoxia involved. 80% and 100% jugular blockages....
10.50 > 11.05 Rare clinical manifestations associated with CCSVI-MS:
extrapyramidal syndrome and normotensive hydrocephalus - F. Salvi Italy

Glad that these are rare. Dr. Salvi is the neurologist who has worked with Dr. Zamboni from the beginning.
10.05 > 11.20 Seasonality in vascular disorders and preliminary data in MS
R. Manfredini Italy

Do vascular disorders exhibit seasonality differences?
12.45 > 13.00 Plethysmography and multiple sclerosis:
analysis of novel data - S. Shepherd UK

Like Dr. Zamboni, Dr. Shepherd is looking at the plethysmography neck-collar-to-measure-blood-flow.
Publications
Main speakers and Authors of accepted abstract in program may submit a full text article for peer review to Functional Neurology. Editorial rules are on line in the journal web site http://www.functionalneurology.it/.

This is interesting, the speakers are invited to submit their work for peer review/publication at Functional Neurology. Interesting that it's a neurology journal, not a vascular one. (We need an esteemed neurovascular journal, I don't think there is such a thing yet.) Functional Neurology is based in Italy, so as a European journal is it likely to be dismissed by US neurologists? Or by having anything positive to say about CCSVI, it is likely to be dismissed....

It was work to go through all of these, I skipped a bunch, what a fascinating program this looks like it will be.
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Postby 1eye » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:07 am

Cece wrote:
CuriousRobot wrote:
Nunzio wrote:I do not know how you came up with this one.
Plethysmography is the recording of changes of body volume.
It is used to check your lung function or, more interesting for us, the blood flow.
Cervical means neck so they are talking about an instrument that check blood flow in the neck.


Noninvasive measurement of central venous pressure by neck inductive plethysmography.

http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/conte ... l.pdf+html

Page four of this document: Plethysmography as neck collar.

yes - a neck collar contraption that measures blood flow - sorry, I wasn't very clear last night! There are pictures of it in the article CuriousRobot linked, if it's the same as the article we had before, and it is a bizarre looking thing but exciting if it delivers more accurate or reproducible results than the other imaging methods thus far


It is more quantitative, I would hope. When I was in college, we studied the concept of Efficiency. For what you put in, how much do you get out? You can express that as output divided by input, which can be a percentage. So, one of our labs was to measure the actual energy you were getting out of a gallon of gas, and when you divide that by how much is in it (about 63 MJ but I don't know whose gallons) you get how efficient your car is at using gas. We had to check out how far the car would roll in neutral, as well as MPG on the flat. The answer was about 20% efficiency. The corollary of that is that you have to throw away 80% of what you buy at the pump, if you use internal combustion.

I didn't have a driver's license or a car, so I made my own version of this lab by measuring my work output on a bicycle ergometer (exercise bike with instrumentation) and my oxygen uptake using neoprene balloons and a gas analysis machine. It ended up about the same as a car. But my food tastes better.

Why this digression? We need exactly the same thing, except a measurement of our oxygen uptake above the neck, in terms of dissolved blood oxygen. The plethysmography approach may give a volumetric of output versus input (I would hope) but we also need to measure the uptake: how much oxygen was there in the blood that went up to the brain, and how much is left before it goes back to the lungs. Combine that with a knowledge of the volumetric output versus input and you know if your brain is going to have a problem with oxygen (hypoxia). Flow is important, but if all that is flowing is tap-water you can't get much thinking done. (especially if it's dripping :) )...
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
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Prof Clive Beggs

Postby Dovechick » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:50 am

Hi all, I don't get much time to come here and post these days but just thought I would put a note in about Prof Beggs who is going to do a presentation at the ISNVD meeting. He is a medical engineer and is working on a model that would enable researchers to 'see' what is happening in the brain with regards to circulation, hypertension and hypoxia... probably a lot more but as he only has 15 minutes to speak it will be a summary... He attended the Glasgow CCSVI conference and was very interesting if a little controversial, he does not endear himself to people. But you have to admire his ingenuity and lateral thinking.
I can't go to this... I hope someone here can and we get some feedback.
All the best
Michele
Michele,  warrior4MS, mother and champion for Ella, the MSer. The solution is out there we just have to ask the right questions.
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Postby sou » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:14 am

Let me up this topic.

Except from me, is any other "thisisms'er" planning to attend the conference?

In my opinion, it is open to the public. The registration form did not ask for a copy of my diploma when registering. I don't know, though.
Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
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italy

Postby zinamaria » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:31 am

He's not a member of this forum (but by extension, he is) but Dr. Hewitt will be attending. He is with Pacific Interventionalists in Southern California.

Buon divertimento!
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Postby DrCumming » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:37 pm

I will be there. Do my best to provide an update after the meeting.
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