Please verify your CCSVI testing facility

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Cece » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:58 pm

I'm going to go with the other way, 1eye: my jugulars were blocked, so that diverted blood flow into my verts (larger than average) and down to the azygous (very large) which brought it back up again, thus making the system slightly more compatible with life.
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Postby civickiller » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:45 pm

not having been liberated yet,

does this just mean that ccsvi may not be detected in some people based on some current dr way of testing?

but when they get the liberation procedure, wont the dr find everything thats wrong or will things get overlooked because it didnt show up on the test?
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Postby Cece » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:55 pm

but when they get the liberation procedure, wont the dr find everything thats wrong or will things get overlooked because it didnt show up on the test?

in my opinion....things will get overlooked because the doctors do not yet have enough experience with CCSVI.

But yes, catheter venogram beats ultrasound. Catheter venogram plus ivus beats them both....
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Postby CCSVI_Atlanta » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:29 pm

Hooch wrote:The technician in Barrie told me that she had a way of checking that the azygous was open using the doppler ultrasound. I am a Dr Siskin patient and he couldn't find my azygous but Angela said I did have one and that I had bloodflow through it!


Hooch, the azygos, as well as other veins in the chest and lumbar/pelvic region, are not able to be properly evaluated by Doppler ultrasound. These are checked during the procedure by a venogram.
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Postby CCSVI_Atlanta » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:45 pm

Cece wrote:But yes, catheter venogram beats ultrasound. Catheter venogram plus ivus beats them both....


Cece, bit of mixing different evaluations that are used for different purposes. Both the venogram and IVUS are used during the procedure. The IVUS augments the venogram by better evaluating the inner walls of the veins during the procedure.

The Doppler ultrasound is vital for both pre and post testing. When done properly it is used to evaluate venous flow in both the neck and deep cerebral veins. It is also used to evaluate the valves, both their location and functionality. Another use is to compare supine to seated blood flow - another key component to Dr. Zamboni's protocols.

This is why Dr. Zamboni has repeatedly stated that the gold standard is Doppler plus Venogram - Doppler for evaluation and Venogram for treatment. Unfortunately this is often misquoted by others stating that the standard is just venogram.
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Postby civickiller » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:39 pm

Cece wrote:in my opinion....things will get overlooked because the doctors do not yet have enough experience with CCSVI.

But yes, catheter venogram beats ultrasound. Catheter venogram plus ivus beats them both....


do you think PI is experienced enough not to overlook things?

how does the full zamboni procedure differ from haacke protocol?
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Postby CD » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:40 pm

Pacific Interventional has a new video of the CCSVI procedure. Click on the left upper corner, where it directs you.
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http://www.pacificinterventional.com/about_ccsvi.html
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Postby Hooch » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:55 pm

CCSVI_ Atlanta - the reason my azygous was not checked during venogram was because Dr Siskin couldn't find or access it. The same technician (trained in Italy by Zamboni) also told my friend who was treated in India that she could tell her azygous was patent from the ultrasound.
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Postby Cece » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:58 pm

civickiller wrote:
Cece wrote:in my opinion....things will get overlooked because the doctors do not yet have enough experience with CCSVI.

But yes, catheter venogram beats ultrasound. Catheter venogram plus ivus beats them both....


do you think PI is experienced enough not to overlook things?

I've had both, they both take over an hour, they both were informative and correct in my case. Since the ultrasound is cheaper and just as good or better, it is preferred, imo. Are you thinking of going with PI, civickiller? I am excited now for everyone who chooses to get this done, now that I've had it myself. :)

For what I mean by venogram beats ultrasound, etc, if you showed me an ultrasound and a venogram image that were contradictory (of the same patient), the venogram would be the one I'd trust. And if you showed me a venogram image alone or a venogram and IVUS images, of the two the venogram with the added information from the IVUS would be the one I'd trust. I agree about the value of the Zamboni protocol ultrasound and that pre- and post- procedure follow-up ultrasounds are a good idea.
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Postby civickiller » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:23 am

yeah im thinking about going with PI unless theres someplace better to go to?

but ill be saving up for it so hopefully i have enough money for it in about a year.
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Postby Lanie » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:12 pm

CCSVI_Atlanta wrote:
Hooch wrote:The technician in Barrie told me that she had a way of checking that the azygous was open using the doppler ultrasound. I am a Dr Siskin patient and he couldn't find my azygous but Angela said I did have one and that I had bloodflow through it!


Hooch, the azygos, as well as other veins in the chest and lumbar/pelvic region, are not able to be properly evaluated by Doppler ultrasound. These are checked during the procedure by a venogram.


Hooch,

The azygos vein is not seen with doppler ultrasound. We look for the presence of epidural veins near the vertebral veins. This tells us there may be a problem with the azygos vein.

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Postby CCSVIhusband » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:51 pm

Lanie wrote:
CCSVI_Atlanta wrote:
Hooch wrote:The technician in Barrie told me that she had a way of checking that the azygous was open using the doppler ultrasound. I am a Dr Siskin patient and he couldn't find my azygous but Angela said I did have one and that I had bloodflow through it!


Hooch, the azygos, as well as other veins in the chest and lumbar/pelvic region, are not able to be properly evaluated by Doppler ultrasound. These are checked during the procedure by a venogram.


Hooch,

The azygos vein is not seen with doppler ultrasound. We look for the presence of epidural veins near the vertebral veins. This tells us there may be a problem with the azygos vein.

Lanie


An interesting confirmation of sorts (though this mentions the IVC ... not the azygous) ... it also mentions the IJVs ...



http://neuroradiologyonthenet.blogspot. ... dural.html

Does anyone have a diagram of where the epidural veins are? I can't find them on wiki or any other google source quickly.

edit: oops, does mention the azygous.
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Postby formyruca » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:37 pm

Hi Lanie,

What is the current number of pwMS that have met 3 of 5 Zamboni criteria at your facility?

Thanks!
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Postby jackiejay » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:45 pm

my son's doppler ultrasound took at the most 20 minutes.....is that normally the amount of time needed to do this exam?
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Postby DrCumming » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:24 am

jackiejay wrote:my son's doppler ultrasound took at the most 20 minutes.....is that normally the amount of time needed to do this exam?


Jackie, the time it takes to do the study is not that important versus the knowledge and skill of the person doing the exam.

Did they find CCSVI?
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