Study shoots hole in 'liberation' theory

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Study shoots hole in 'liberation' theory

Postby Lyon » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:05 pm

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Last edited by Lyon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ok..

Postby leetz » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:45 pm

but i must argue that CCSVI is correlated with MS, I had the procedure, had improvements and lost them because veins did not remain open....Canada as well as the pharma companie's must have loved this one! Funny, how many of them (meaning the drug companie "pushers") actually have this disease? Do they even wonder what it must be like for someone to gradually (or rapidly) lose the function's that once were, not because of aging but because of a disease and "narrow" (pun intended) minded thinking? Where is the love?
GOD BLESS.... CCSVI treatment Dr. Siskin great doc....symptom's improved for about 3 week's (gait, balance, spasticity) now back to square 1...
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Postby Salvatore24 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:54 pm

The 56% sounds awfully similar to what was concluded a year ago. How did they get this number? Oh that's right, only using MRV, not doppler ultrasound. I'm not saying CCSVI is the cause of MS, I think it plays some part in how severe it can be though.
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Postby CureIous » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:05 pm

Whats a matter Lyon, participating in the other thread where you commented on this wasn't enough, had to go find another copy of the article and put your own spin on it? lol. Seriously dude.

Why is it the two guys who rarely even read the studies they post or comment on (while commenting on others comments), are ever so quick to plaster every provocative media headline they can find, then bemoan the tragedy of people nibbling at the bait?

Make sure to find the one that says "so called liberation" in the first paragraph too.

This is the level of your inquiry?

So these are the caliber of responses to be seen in response to two recent legitimate and unfavorable CCSVI studies?? The "science" of overcooked meat on the bbq and that the researchers are on the take? http://www.thisisms.com/ftopic-16122-0.html


I will note for the record you are now precisely mimicking Scorpion's MO, that is, find the provocative headline, more the better, post new thread of oft-discussed material, sans commentary, wait for responses, then feign ignorance, all the while proclaiming mere curiosity.

What's the point? We've all seen the info, why do we need to know what a particular reporter that isn't even familiar with the info has to say about it?

lol@ "shoots hole", how scientific can you get?
RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap
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Postby se1956 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:33 pm

80% of lung cancer patients are smokers.
25% of the whole pupulation are smokers (that are millions).

So smoking plays a minor role for lung cancer ?

In the late stages of MS I think there is 80-90% CCSVI. So CCSVI may strongly increase the risc for getting MS - like smoking for lung cancer.

The caption of the arcticle is misleading.

R.
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Postby Stacemeh » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:24 am

OR

Maybe this study (which is essentially just a snap shot in time) shows that in this highly variable condition (that is MS) those with increased venous abnormality are more likely to develop more severe disability?

Interesting :?
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Postby Robnl » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:23 am

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Health/201104 ... py-110413/
http://www.buffalo.edu/news/12469

How do you interprete the results? 8) What do you 'want' to read?

Alot of stud has to be done...
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Postby Lyon » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:32 am

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Last edited by Lyon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby griff » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:49 am

CCSVI treatment has been going on in clinics for more than a year. I am just wondering why we do not have reliable data on the improvements. Why clinics could not have documneted this? Many of them treats many local patients whose follow-up would not cause any difficulties. Local patients could be easily checked even in every month e.g. in Poland.

I can not imagine that a few neurologists could not have been hired to do the proper neurological assessment of the patients. From that money we pay for the operation, it could be easily done. Independednt IRs told several times that documentation e.g. at Euromedic was not reliable, mostly anecdotic. I think something is really wrong here. We waisted a year.

Another issue, do we know why the original theory of dr Schelling got stuck?
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Postby se1956 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:58 am

Till now this should be reliable enough:

http://www.ccsvi-tracking.com/index_timeline.php

But it should be confirmed (or not) by clinical trials.

R.
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'Liberation Theory' does not exist

Postby MarkW » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:23 am

'Liberation Theory' does not exist so neuros are able to shoot holes in it. Expression 'tilting at windmills' comes to mind.
If anyone wants to see open label data from de-stenosis go to:
http://ameds.co/about-us/recent-informa ... centrum,37 Physician recorded data.
I am not recommending this clinic as they use stents occasionally.

MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Postby Robnl » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:16 am

another view on the BNAC study

<shortened url>
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Postby griff » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:04 am

se1956 wrote:Till now this should be reliable enough:

http://www.ccsvi-tracking.com/index_timeline.php

But it should be confirmed (or not) by clinical trials.

R.


As far as I know this is a self-assessed measurement, isn't it? It is hard to aggregate symptoms, when there are symptoms that occur for someone and not for another one.

Waiting for a clinical trial is a lame excuse. As I said many clinics have already had the opprotunity to do a normal documantation of the improvements, but they have not done it. They also had the financials to do so from the money they collected from us.
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Re: 'Liberation Theory' does not exist

Postby griff » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:13 am

MarkW wrote:'Liberation Theory' does not exist so neuros are able to shoot holes in it. They are joined by the naysayer Lyon. Expression 'tilting at windmills' comes to mind.
If anyone wants to see open label data from de-stenosis go to:
http://ameds.co/about-us/recent-informa ... centrum,37 Physician recorded data.
I am not recommending this clinic as they use stents occasionally.

MarkW


That is something, but it seems to me that their results are based on survey. Can't they do better than that?

Would you take a new drug whose efficacy is based on people's survey?
Why can not they check their Polish patients regularly? Poland is not a huge country.
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Postby Cece » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:10 am

Robnl wrote:another view on the BNAC study

<shortened url>

“We can point to a number of different factors that could point to closure of the veins, but we don’t have an answer,” [Zivadinov] said. “Our message on CCSVI is definitely we should proceed to understand why people who have progressive forms have much more prevalence of this phenomenon.”
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