Idea ... lets ignore MS and focus on circulation

Cece · Post by **Cece** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:05 pm

Dr. Hubbard's fMRI BOLD testing is along these lines too. They're showing that venoplasty normalizes cortical blood flow. It's in Arlene Hubbard's note on Facebook about the Hubbard Conference this past weekend.

I think it is necessary to separate the two. In the imaging studies, there were patients with CCSVI in the "healthy control" group. If it was a study of CCSVI, there would be CCSVI patients in one group and nonCCSVI patients in the other.

1eye · Post by **1eye** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:24 pm

I would control the study by having a group of patients, all hand-picked if necessary, but who all have demonstrably similarly measurable levels of both insufficiency and some symptom. Then I would treat some, and remeasure all. You could continually turn over the untreated group by getting new ones and treating the old. Remeasure every time. Problems?

fogdweller · Post by **fogdweller** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:52 am

1eye wrote: increased blood transit time is beneficial I know you meant decreased. With science, does it matter if your audience is the FDA or a peer-reviewed journal?

Opps. Yeah, decreased.

I hadn't thought it through enough, you really don't need the FDA. In fact, I am not sure the FDA would get involved. The FDA approves devices and drugs, not medical procedures. Scientific evidence will convince the docs to do the procedure, and provide an argument for the medical need for the procedure.

Here is a study along the lines I was thinking, but it strongly suggests that vascular insufficieny is not involved in MS:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21544565

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:24 am

It's unfortunate that they just used pwRRMS. I would think it would be fairly easy to get SPMS and PPMS people involved and possibly more relevant. Seems that the researchers don't really want to deal with us pesky progressive types.

1eye · Post by **1eye** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:24 am

This study is drastically small compared to the ones I am seeing from Dake, Haacke, Zivadinov. I think insurance companies will need better numbers than this. All patients were in remission: no symptoms, so venoplasty would not have helped them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_hypoxia

There is a test for Renaud's that might say something about hand temperature and circulation. It was used in the quoted study, I think. In the reference I gave, Wikipedia explains that a natural reaction to hypoxia is thickening of the blood, increased red blood cell count. That is the kind of measureable quality that cannot be explained as a placebo effect.

Cece · Post by **Cece** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:41 am

fogdweller, that study was looking at the brachial artery.

fogdweller · Post by **fogdweller** » Wed May 18, 2011 12:49 pm

Cece wrote:fogdweller, that study was looking at the brachial artery.

I will definitely have to read the whole article. There was bracial artery dilation (?not sure what that was about?) but " Venous blood was analyzed for C-reactive protein (CRP), lipid hydroperoxides (LH), the ferric reducing ability of plasma (FRAP), superoxide dismutase (SOD), and catalase activity" so it was analyzing venoux blood, presumably after it had circulated through the brain, I am not sure. The article makes statements about systemic inflamation, so I don't think it is about only the brachial artery.

Sorry I haven't had time to read the article, but I am really rushed this afternoon. Probably get to it tomorrow.

Go Sharks!!!