brains and *********

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

brains and *********

Postby scorpion » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:17 pm

Food for thought:


My dad, who was an aircraft engineer, often used the phrase “bullshit beats brains” and, when it comes to any technology with any degree of complexity, it is easy for the misinformed and unscrupulous to distort and misrepresent any given technology to meet their own ends … ends which are usually involved with them making money.

The science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke famously said “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” so when it comes to selling stuff, using magical technology descriptions that sound plausible has become the gold standard of modern marketing.


http://blogs.forbes.com/markgibbs/2011/ ... -bullshit/
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Postby cheerleader » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:51 pm

You're referring to Thomas River's development of the EAE model for MS, obviously. Thanks, scorpion.

It's amazing to consider how this model, (like ADEM in humans, due to the lack of relapsing and remitting) which requires an injection of oils, pathogens and antigens into mice brains- ever became accepted by scientists as a correct model for MS, much less became the model for drug development. But, pwMS are a highly suggestable population, and will fall for snake oil if the salesmen are proficient or greedy enough...certainly food for thought!
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby 1eye » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:39 pm

Food for thought

I think my thoughts just starved to death...
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
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Re: brains and *********

Postby formyruca » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:50 pm

scorpion wrote:gold standard of modern marketing.


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Postby CureIous » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:28 pm

I'm sure such things were said "back in the day" about every new paradigm shift involving technology. After all, were'nt computers going to make our lives so much simpler and "convenient"? What a crock, have less time now than ever .

Luckily, not all new technology is magic tricks. It's only smoke and mirrors to those on the outside viewing through a telescope with a limited field of focus.

For some, it really is the best thing since sliced bread. Working now my 21st consecutive day of 12 hour shifts without a break, I can only say, "bring on the magic!". That's physical work, in the heat btw. Only about 2 more weeks left though then the job's over. Imagine that, Captain Fatigue leading the charge through the long hot days....
RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap
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Postby se1956 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:58 pm

In the year 1880 there was the “War of Currents”:

Edison (promoting his DC power plants) started a campaign to convince people that the usage of the new AC current (from Westinghouse and Tesla) is far too dangerous. It was all about patents and big money.

Later Edison stated that this was the biggest mistake in his life (a special contribution to scorpion).

R.
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Postby scorpion » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:35 am

cheerleader wrote:You're referring to Thomas River's development of the EAE model for MS, obviously. Thanks, scorpion.

It's amazing to consider how this model, (like ADEM in humans, due to the lack of relapsing and remitting) which requires an injection of oils, pathogens and antigens into mice brains- ever became accepted by scientists as a correct model for MS, much less became the model for drug development. But, pwMS are a highly suggestable population, and will fall for snake oil if the salesmen are proficient or greedy enough...certainly food for thought!
cheer


Sorry you feel that way Cheer. What this gentleman left out is that the multiple media sources we have available to us today have enabled us to only look, if we so choose, at outlets that validate ONLY what we want to think(our worldview). For example if someone believes the liberal left is destroying the Constitution just watch Fox and your opinion is validated. If someone believes the religious right wants to turn everyone into radical Christians, listen to Michael Moore for "back-up". Of course we all do this to a certain extent but when you are completely blocking out other people's ideas/arguments, I do believe this form of "pick and choosing" of information can be dangerous. For example, if I firmly(for whatever reason) believe that bee stings cure MS, I am pretty confident I could search Google and come up with numerous testimonies/professionals hailing this as the next new emerging MS therapy and if I posted these so called "facts" over and over and over again, people might start to believe them. I am not saying people are dumb. Hell reading is how we get a lot of our information but this has kind of become the trend of how we(yes not just people with MS) seek our "information". Although we will disagree I think this is what has happened to CCSVI and why so many people have bought into it(not saying it should not be investigated further.) Take a look at this forum-.Formula: Paste many testimonials of people who have had "recoveries" after angioplasty, add in some obscure medical posts you dig up on the internet,post here, and talk them up like they prove the second coming of Christ, and presto you have a legitimate MS treatment option!!! I will once again take a hiatus from posting on here, for various reasons, but I do encourage people to continue offering different viewpoints on this forum so that we do not become the "Fox News" or "MSNBC" of the MS support forum world! Wow, maybe I am starting to take this stuff a little to seriously!!!! :?
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Postby cheerleader » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:09 am

The "suggestable" comment was irony. Nothing more. This has been your implication on this forum time and again. Your assumption that people on this forum are uneducated or naive.

The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.
Bertrand Russell


This quote (on religion) begins a paper written by three neurologists who do not believe MS is anything like EAE. They believe neurology has accepted the EAE model as a "credo"--based on blind faith and not science. They believe it has harmed those with MS.

Here is the full paper in pdf form. I recommend it -
link

I've never said that angioplasty for CCSVI is the cure. Nor is it effective for all. It MAY be an answer for some. It MAY relieve some symptoms. I believe pwMS have the right to be tested for central venous stenosis, and treated--if they so desire.

The research presented in this forum may seem arcane or unimportant to most. But for those of us who have been questioning EAE, and looking at hypoxia and hypoperfusion as the cause of MS, it is very important.

If this research or discussion does not interest someone, it is their right to state so or go elsewhere. But not to continue to make snide comments or insult. This would not be tolerated on the antibiotics or Revimmune forum. Nor should it be tolerated here.
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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