Monkeys with MS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Monkeys with MS

Postby 10yearsandstillkicken » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:26 pm

Maybe the model we have been waiting for:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 163321.htm
ScienceDaily (June 28, 2011) — Researchers at Oregon Health & Science University have discovered a naturally occurring disease in monkeys that is very much like multiple sclerosis in humans -- a discovery that could have a major impact on efforts to understand the cause of multiple sclerosis.

The disease that the researchers discovered in monkeys at OHSU's Oregon National Primate Research Center is associated with a herpes virus that could give significant clues into how multiple sclerosis develops in humans. MS researchers have long believed that a type of herpes virus may trigger multiple sclerosis in people who are genetically susceptible to the disease.

The OHSU researchers' findings were published online in the Annals of Neurology.

"These findings could have a huge impact on our understanding of MS and could be a landmark in someday developing more effective treatments for the disease, or even methods to prevent the onset of MS," said Scott Wong, Ph.D., senior author of the study and a scientist at the Vaccine and Gene Therapy Institute and the Oregon National Primate Research Center.

Both elements of the OHSU discovery are important for MS researchers.

Before the OHSU findings, researchers had been able to study MS-like diseases in nonhuman primates only after the disease had been artificially induced. A naturally occurring disease, such as the one discovered at OHSU, can give researchers many more clues into the causes and development of the disease.

"Now, we may be able to tease apart what's triggering the onset of the disease," Wong said.

And the fact that the disease, found in a small percentage of the Japanese macaques at OHSU each year, came from a herpes virus could prove hugely important to MS researchers worldwide. Researchers can now search for a similar virus in MS patients.

The cause of MS, which affects about 400,000 people in the United States, is unknown. But researchers have long believed that a virus, possibly a herpes virus, might trigger the disease in people who are genetically susceptible.

"Understanding how this herpes virus causes the MS-like disease in the monkeys will give us important new knowledge -- and drive new research that could lead to significant advancements in finding and preventing the virus that might cause MS," said Dennis Bourdette, M.D., a co-author of the study, director of the Multiple Sclerosis Center of Oregon and professor and chairman of the OHSU Department of Neurology.

From 1986 through 2010, 56 of the Japanese macaque monkeys at the Oregon National Primate Research Center at OHSU spontaneously developed paralysis in their hind limbs, along with other symptoms. The monkeys were humanely euthanized because they could not have been returned to the monkey colony safely. Researchers later did necropsies on the their bodies and performed MRI scans on eight of the animals.

That work and other testing allowed researchers to discover that an MS-like disease called Japanese macaque encephalomyelitis was causing the paralysis. While the disease typically afflicted young adult animals, it also was present in juveniles and older animals, and was present in both males and females.

About 1 to 3 percent of the more than 300 Japanese macaques at the primate center develop the disease each year, according to the researchers.

With this discovery, MS researchers now will be able to move toward trying to prevent or treat the virus in monkeys, which might help scientists make progress in treating MS in humans.

In addition to Wong and Bourdette, co-authors of the study include Michael Axthelm, D.V.M., Ph.D., of the Vaccine and Gene Therapy Institute; William Rooney, Ph.D., of OHSU's Advanced Imaging Research Center; and Larry Sherman, Ph.D., of the Oregon National Primate Research Center.

The research was supported by the National Institutes of Health, the Research Enrichment Award Program of the Department of Veterans Affairs Biomedical Laboratory Research and Development, the OHSU Multiple Sclerosis Center, and the United States Department of Defense. The study is titled "Japanese macaque encephalomyelitis: a spontaneous multiple sclerosis-like disease."
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Postby fogdweller » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:28 pm

This could be really good news! I have never had much use for EAE since it was created artificially by inducing the kind of problem in mice (auto-immune demylination) that the scientist believed to be the basis of MS, and then usijng it as evidence that MS was primarily an auto-immune demylinating disease. Always struck me as rather circular in reasoning. This would seem to me to be much more instructive.
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Postby 10yearsandstillkicken » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:00 pm

Time will tell I guess. If it is more like MS, then a better model it may be. Would be great if someone could perform and MRV using the Haacke protocol to see if there is stenosis etc. Heck, do monkeys even have jugular veins? Do they collapse when upright? So many questions.
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Postby patticake66 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:07 pm

So if a herpes like virus causes MS, what is the connection to CCSVI?
Then wouldn't it be the virus as the culprit not CCSVI? Just wondering....
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Postby 10yearsandstillkicken » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:19 pm

If that virus is in play, what says it does not cause it in monkeys as well? Assumptions galore and there is that saying.
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Postby fernando » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:25 pm

patticake66 wrote:So if a herpes like virus causes MS, what is the connection to CCSVI?
Then wouldn't it be the virus as the culprit not CCSVI? Just wondering....


Why not? Maybe we have to have more than one trigger or predisposition. Maybe our blood brain barrier is weakened by ccsvi so a virus could enter more easily into our CNS.
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Postby ikulo » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:54 pm

It could be the virus causing weakened veins, causing MS and CCSVI together. CCSVI could in fact be a separate condition in all this. This virus would weaken the tiny veins in the CNS, disrupting the BBB and causing lesions. Then it can also weaken other veins in the body, such as the jugulars, etc.
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Postby Nola » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:01 am

can these monkeys communicate? how do they FEEL about their illness?

do their human handlers have ms too?

what is their diet?

oh, everyone will want to get their paws on these monkeys.
</div><div>Every moment of light and dark is a miracle. -- Walt Whitman</div><div>
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Postby frodo » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:23 am

patticake66 wrote:So if a herpes like virus causes MS, what is the connection to CCSVI?
Then wouldn't it be the virus as the culprit not CCSVI? Just wondering....


MS could be a multifactor disease. Maybe some people get it from viruses and others from trauma. I would say that anything capable of weakening the BBB is a potential factor.
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Postby PCakes » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:39 am

frodo wrote:
patticake66 wrote:So if a herpes like virus causes MS, what is the connection to CCSVI?
Then wouldn't it be the virus as the culprit not CCSVI? Just wondering....


MS could be a multifactor disease. Maybe some people get it from viruses and others from trauma. I would say that anything capable of weakening the BBB is a potential factor.

well said!
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:56 am

We already know about herpes in the human brain and what it does....it's called herpes encephalitis.

On pathology, herpes viruses cause a fulminant hemorrhagic and necrotizing meningoencephalitis, with typical gross findings of severe edema and massive tissue necrosis, with petechial hemorrhages and hemorrhagic necrosis. Often, the petechial hemorrhage is not observed on computed tomography (CT) scanning or MRI. On microscopy, a focal necrotizing vasculitis is observed with perivascular and meningeal lymphocytic infiltration and eosinophilic intranuclear inclusions in glial cells and neurons. Taira et al found that a lower Glasgow Coma Scale score and a greater number of lesions detected on CT scanning were predictors of prolonged acyclovir therapy.[13]

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/341142-overview

it's treated with acyclovir. Viral testing is one of the first things they do when you have a lumbar puncture at diagnosis. Jeff was tested for herpes, EBV and a slew of viruses and was negative. I'm not sure if this would have been missed.

As far as the monkeys, Here's the abstract--it does look promising-more to learn!
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 9/abstract

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dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby patticake66 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:59 pm

so what you are saying is that some people get MS from a virus and others may get MS from occluded veins? If so, would that apply for someone like me who doesn't have anything wrong with my veins ( I have been tested) but have MS?
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Postby Cece » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:43 pm

patticake how were you tested? The testing doesn't always show what is seen when the venogram is done.

I think what cheer is talking about is herpes encephalitis, which is different from MS. I haven't read much about this 'monkey model' of viral MS as opposed to the mouse model of EAE. Neither sound too close to what we experience with real naturally occuring in humans MS!
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:24 pm

What I'm saying is that we already know what herpes does to the human brain....it isn't relapsing and remitting, like MS. It's an encephalitic reaction that causes swelling and cellular death due to bleeding into tissue, and it's also detectable by lumbar puncture and MRI imaging. MS is very different than herpes encephalitis or ADEM.

Viruses are known endothelial disrupters, and disturb the blood brain barrier, because of this, viruses would show up in cerebral spinal fluid when one is tested. And acyclovir is prescribed to help clear up the infection if detected. I'm just saying, from personal experience with Jeff, that viruses such as EBV and herpes were ruled out before his MS diagnosis was made. Unless this is a brand new form of herpes, never seen before in man and not tested for before....now that would be interesting!
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http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby munchkin » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:24 pm

When I was diagnosed I never had a lumbar puncture. The Dr's felt that it was redundant when the mri was pretty conclusive.

I wonder how many people, especially Canadians, never got full testing.
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