Are narrow blood vessels to blame in MS?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Are narrow blood vessels to blame in MS?

Postby scorpion » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:01 am

But researchers said it's hard for doctors to even know what they're looking for on blood vessel scans, and whether anything that looks strange could be playing a part in MS symptoms.




http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/ ... NV20110714
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Postby MegansMom » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:25 pm

Again, focusing on studies based on Doppler ( operator dependent ) studies gives a very biased result that is not good. It shuts the door rather than asking for more study.

A better gauge to measure CCSVI AND IT'S TREATMENT is Dr David Hubbard's objective before and after study of the brain perfusion done with fMRI BOLD.

fMRI BOLD cannot be altered. It's much like a "thinking" pet scan done before venoplasty and after ONLY IT USES OXYGEN NOT GLUCOSE.
It clearly shows the increase in the oxygen level to the brain TISSUE during "thinking" AFTER VENOPLASTY. Objective Evidence of increased perfusion!

One must look with a critical eye at operator technique based studies ( like those cited in this article) especially when the sponsors have support from pharmaceutical companies.
These "do they have CCSVI?" tests are pointless if they are not venoplasty or IVUS based.

DOPPLER TESTING IS NOT RELIABLE ! THE GOLD STANDARD IS VENOGRAM!

Too many patients have been tested, deemed negative and then with further testing and venogram HAD CCSVI!

This Reuters writer has not done her homework. Wait until Dr Oz shows the Montel Williams CCSVI testing and treatment/procedure. After that the dam will burst.

CCSVI may ultimately not be the whole cause of MS. But it does exist and it does need treatment. Treatment does need to get honed and research needs funding. PERIOD!
Cat (Catherine Somerville on FB)
MegansMom
My 35 yo daughter is newly dx 8/19/10 (had 12 symptoms)
Dx with Type A CCSVI- 1 IJV & double "candy wrapper" appearance of her Azygos
Venoplasty done Sept 21, 2010
Doing extremely well-
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Postby Cece » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:42 pm

After Zamboni's initial findings were published, hopeful MS patients started requesting blood-vessel opening procedures, and a few doctors became well known in the MS community for being willing to perform them.

Dr. Ponec
Dr. Gooding
Dr. Arata
Dr. Sclafani
Dr. Simka
Dr. Sullivan
Dr. MacDonald
Dr. Cumming
Dr. Hewett
Dr. Haskel
Dr. Snyder
Dr. Dake
Dr. Andrews
Dr. Siskin
Dr. Englander
Dr. Sullivan
Dr. Mehta
Dr. McGuckin
Dr. Caridi
Dr. Benenati
Dr. Galleoti
Dr. Niedzwiecki
Dr. Reid
Dr. Sinan
and many more

'A few who are willing to do procedures' is not very accurate. I am aware of many doctors who are active in treatment and research of CCSVI.
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Postby scorpion » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:45 pm

MegansMom wrote:Again, focusing on studies based on Doppler ( operator dependent ) studies gives a very biased result that is not good. It shuts the door rather than asking for more study.

A better gauge to measure CCSVI AND IT'S TREATMENT is Dr David Hubbard's objective before and after study of the brain perfusion done with fMRI BOLD.

fMRI BOLD cannot be altered. It's much like a "thinking" pet scan done before venoplasty and after ONLY IT USES OXYGEN NOT GLUCOSE.
It clearly shows the increase in the oxygen level to the brain TISSUE during "thinking" AFTER VENOPLASTY. Objective Evidence of increased perfusion!

One must look with a critical eye at operator technique based studies ( like those cited in this article) especially when the sponsors have support from pharmaceutical companies.
These "do they have CCSVI?" tests are pointless if they are not venoplasty or IVUS based.

DOPPLER TESTING IS NOT RELIABLE ! THE GOLD STANDARD IS VENOGRAM!

Too many patients have been tested, deemed negative and then with further testing and venogram HAD CCSVI!

This Reuters writer has not done her homework. Wait until Dr Oz shows the Montel Williams CCSVI testing and treatment/procedure. After that the dam will burst.

CCSVI may ultimately not be the whole cause of MS. But it does exist and it does need treatment. Treatment does need to get honed and research needs funding. PERIOD!


So why should Zamboni be taken serious? Didn't he use Doppler???
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Postby MegansMom » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:06 pm

scorpion wrote:
MegansMom wrote:Again, focusing on studies based on Doppler ( operator dependent ) studies gives a very biased result that is not good. It shuts the door rather than asking for more study.

A better gauge to measure CCSVI AND IT'S TREATMENT is Dr David Hubbard's objective before and after study of the brain perfusion done with fMRI BOLD.

fMRI BOLD cannot be altered. It's much like a "thinking" pet scan done before venoplasty and after ONLY IT USES OXYGEN NOT GLUCOSE.
It clearly shows the increase in the oxygen level to the brain TISSUE during "thinking" AFTER VENOPLASTY. Objective Evidence of increased perfusion!

One must look with a critical eye at operator technique based studies ( like those cited in this article) especially when the sponsors have support from pharmaceutical companies.
These "do they have CCSVI?" tests are pointless if they are not venoplasty or IVUS based.

DOPPLER TESTING IS NOT RELIABLE ! THE GOLD STANDARD IS VENOGRAM!

Too many patients have been tested, deemed negative and then with further testing and venogram HAD CCSVI!

This Reuters writer has not done her homework. Wait until Dr Oz shows the Montel Williams CCSVI testing and treatment/procedure. After that the dam will burst.

CCSVI may ultimately not be the whole cause of MS. But it does exist and it does need treatment. Treatment does need to get honed and research needs funding. PERIOD!


So why should Zamboni be taken serious? Didn't he use Doppler???



Taken seriously ? Are you kidding? He deserves a Nobel prize !

Zamboni was studying arterial flow via color Doppler . These tests show red as oxygenated blood and blue as deoxygenated venous blood and he noticed that people with MS had reflux (which looks purple) After he saw this finding a few times he thought it warranted more study. He had amn interest and knew more about MS than the average vascular physician. In looking more deeply into this he discovered more similarities to venous disease. The tissue type, the iron deposits, etc. He pent many years prior to his study in 2008/09. The reason Doppler is used for screening is that it's non invasive and cheap BUT and this is a big but, it has limitations if the technician s not trained. Also the Azygos is not visible with Doppler.

But putting the diagnosis of CCSVI aside , please look at Dr Hubbards study. seriously it is the most impressive proof that hypo-perfusion ( low fuel) is caused by CCSVI and chronic HYPOPERFUSION can cause global brain damage, demyelination and cell death.... Which would lead to activation of the immune system, along with a reason for higher than normal brain iron deposits, which can cause oxidative inflammation, and damage of the BBB too.

It all fits.

You can be skeptical but please look at the objective tests- hence Hubbards fMRI BOLD.

HIS FINDING ARE OBJECTIVE PROOF.
Cat (Catherine Somerville on FB)
MegansMom
My 35 yo daughter is newly dx 8/19/10 (had 12 symptoms)
Dx with Type A CCSVI- 1 IJV & double "candy wrapper" appearance of her Azygos
Venoplasty done Sept 21, 2010
Doing extremely well-
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Postby MegansMom » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:38 pm

Here ya go Scorpion: evidence

http://hubbardfoundation.org/CCSVI_fmri.html
Cat (Catherine Somerville on FB)
MegansMom
My 35 yo daughter is newly dx 8/19/10 (had 12 symptoms)
Dx with Type A CCSVI- 1 IJV & double "candy wrapper" appearance of her Azygos
Venoplasty done Sept 21, 2010
Doing extremely well-
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Postby scorpion » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:42 pm

I don't see how someone can win a Nobel prize for using a technique that is not valid in order to obtain his results but hey we live in a crazy world. There is no reason for me to have much of a discussion with the "enlightened"(as opposed to the "skeptic" of course) on this board because I can not refute you when you feel this or that study has confirmed what you already believe.

I have found proof that the earth is only 1,000 years old. This is conclusive.



a. Dr. Thomas Barnes, a professor in physics says the earth’s magnetic field indicates the earth to be only a few 1,000 years old.

b. Scientists have shown that the diminishing under ground water and oil supply are proof that the earth is only a few thousand years old, diminishing at the rate they are now they would have been gone long ago if the earth was truly millions of years old.

c. Supposedly meteorites have been falling to the earth for millions of years, and yet there are no meteorites found in the so-called older strata ….

d. The human population’s growth indicates an earth only a few thousand years old.
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Postby marcstck » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:53 pm

Not to throw fuel on the fire, since I am a CCSVI supporters/believer (in that it at least plays a part in the MS puzzle), but I was visiting the National Institutes of Health last week for more poking, prodding, and scanning, and had a conversation with their neuroradiologists about the Hubbard F MRI studies.

According to the researchers at the National Institutes of Health, F MRI is notoriously unreliable, and the results not repeatable. In their words, it is a very finicky and temperamental scan.

Not to say that the Hubbard scans weren't valid, but as with all scientific research, the results must be replicated before they can be considered fact. One research report out of a single lab/facility certainly is reason to be intrigued, but cannot be considered proof of anything.

BTW, I'm spelling F MRI the way I am because my voice recognition software likes it like that, and I'm too lazy at the moment to train it to learn a new word…
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Postby Lyon » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:56 pm

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Last edited by Lyon on Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby marcstck » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:54 pm

Lyon wrote:How long have you been using voice recognition software Marc??


I've been using Dragon NaturallySpeaking for about four and half years now. It's a godsend, as my right arm and hand are about as useful as a salami.

Not that there's anything wrong with salami, mind you, I just wouldn't want to have to try to type with one…
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Postby MrSuccess » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:52 pm

The good old standby - the MRI is estimated to be 98% accurate . You can miss alot in 2%.

And that is NOT .... operator dependant .

It just IS.

And Marc ..... [ you know how much I admire you ]..... but .... really ....
that .... " I spoke to a guy at NIH .... who said ...... " is wearing a bit thin with MR.Success ........ you never say WHO ........ but the CCSVI doctors are always named :twisted:

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Postby orion98665 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:08 pm

scorpion wrote:I have found proof that the earth is only 1,000 years old. This is conclusive.



a. Dr. Thomas Barnes, a professor in physics says the earth’s magnetic field indicates the earth to be only a few 1,000 years old.



Scorp i thought you might like this link!

http://www.epicidiot.com/evo_cre/magnetic_field.htm

Or this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller ... l_District

i highly recommend this video

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/ ... trial.html
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Postby marcstck » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:57 pm

MrSuccess wrote:The good old standby - the MRI is estimated to be 98% accurate . You can miss alot in 2%.

And that is NOT .... operator dependant .

It just IS.



Have I made my point ?


And Marc ..... [ you know how much I admire you ]..... but .... really ....
that .... " I spoke to a guy at NIH .... who said ...... " is wearing a bit thin with MR.Success ........ you never say WHO ........ but the CCSVI doctors are always named :twisted:

Have I made another point ?



Mr.Success


Mr. Success, [you know how much I admire you]..... But.....

Really..... The only point you're making is the one....... that I fear may be growing on the top of your head.... :-)

The...

... names of....

....... the doctors at the.......... NIH

..... Are.... Dr. Reich,

and,,,,,,,,,

Dr.

Cortese.....

I hope this helps.....

With your profound understanding!!!!!! Of the

topic at hand?. & ()
Last edited by marcstck on Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cece » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:20 pm

I am disappointed to hear fMRI is finicky like that.
I saw in Dr. Ponec's presentation today that they are expanding their fMRI study.
Also, Marc takes excellent pictures, gives an excellent speech, and there was something about a groin, a heart and a brain that made me laugh. I regret never managing to say hello.
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Postby marcstck » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:19 pm

Cece wrote:I am disappointed to hear fMRI is finicky like that.
I saw in Dr. Ponec's presentation today that they are expanding their fMRI study.
Also, Marc takes excellent pictures, gives an excellent speech, and there was something about a groin, a heart and a brain that made me laugh. I regret never managing to say hello.


Glad you enjoyed my presentation, Cece, and thanks for the kind words. I too am sorry that we didn't get a chance to meet.

I was also sorry that your patient Roundtable was cut so short. It seemed like it could have gone in a lot of interesting directions…
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