No Cerebral or Cervical Venous Insufficiency in US Veterans

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

No Cerebral or Cervical Venous Insufficiency in US Veterans

Postby Cece » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:57 pm

http://archneur.ama-assn.org/cgi/conten ... l.2011.185
ABSTRACT

Objective To determine if chronic cerebral venous insufficiency exists in patients with multiple sclerosis (MS) using ultrasonography and 4-dimensional color Doppler ultrasonography examination and unverified criteria proposed by Zamboni et al.

Design Patients with MS and clinically isolated syndrome were matched by age and sex with subjects with migraine or no neurological disease. All subjects underwent gray-scale, color, and spectral Doppler ultrasonography examination of the internal jugular veins (IJVs), vertebral veins, and deep cerebral veins for stenosis, absence of signal, and reflux.

Setting Academic MS center.

Patients All patients with MS fulfilled revised McDonald criteria for the diagnosis of MS. Patients with clinically isolated syndrome exhibited a typical transient focal neurological deficit and had magnetic resonance imaging lesions typical of MS. Control subjects were recruited from the VA migraine clinic or staff.

Main Outcome Measures Five parameters of venous outflow used by Zamboni et al were examined: (1) IJV or vertebral vein reflux, (2) deep cerebral vein reflux, (3) IJV stenosis, (4) absence of flow in IJVs or vertebral veins, and (5) change in cross-sectional area of the IJV with postural change.

Results There was no significant difference in the number and type of venous outflow abnormalities in patients with MS compared with controls.

Conclusion This study does not support the theory that chronic cerebral venous insufficiency exists in MS.

A small study of 18 pwMS and a control group of 11 people with migraines or no neurological disorders. 4 were found in each group that had 1 Zamboni criteria. None were found that had 2 criteria. This was a doppler imaging study.

www.baltimoresun.com/health/sns-rt-us-m ... 6449.story
And from a news article on the research:
The researchers say the results -- and recent reports from other investigators -- "call into question" whether CCSVI actually does play a role in causing MS, and whether there's really any point in trying to treat the blood vessel condition.

That is just depressing!

I don't understand the conflicting results. It's a game of Find the CCSVI only it's no game at all.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 9022
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Advertisement

Postby scorpion » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:36 pm

Find the CCSVI!!!! To funny Cece. I know it is not funny but damn you made my evening, for some reason, with that comment. :lol:
User avatar
scorpion
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:00 pm

Postby Cece » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:42 pm

thanks scorpion :)
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 9022
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Postby civickiller » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:02 pm

This is were Upper Cervical Care fits
User avatar
civickiller
Family Elder
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: No Cerebral or Cervical Venous Insufficiency in US Veter

Postby frodo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:02 am

In this case the method looks quite well performed. But let's wait for double-blinded studies performed by the Zamboni team. This could be just lack of skills of the team performing the tests.
User avatar
frodo
Family Elder
 
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby frodo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:03 am

civickiller wrote:This is were Upper Cervical Care fits


Should't the blood flow be modified if they had upper cervical problems?
User avatar
frodo
Family Elder
 
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:00 pm

Postby civickiller » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:07 am

not necessarily. maybe this can answer it better, please watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-ucWHtRpQs
User avatar
civickiller
Family Elder
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Hawaii

Postby bestadmom » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:23 am

civickiller wrote:This is were Upper Cervical Care fits


I was thinking the same thing. Servicemen and women with ms could have developed the symptoms as a result of severe trauma, forcing mis-alignment of the spine.
User avatar
bestadmom
Family Elder
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: CT

Postby MegansMom » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:57 am

My daughter is ex- military. She did 5 active duty years. One was spent in Korea, she also served time in Saudi Arabia besides her time states side.

She had CCSVI ( left IJV and Azygos) via venography.

I truly question these testers. Too many folks who were tested with MRV, or Doppler and deemed Not to have CCSVI have been later found ( at another center or via venogram) to indeed have it. I don't believe everyone does but it seems that the majority do.

The only true way to know you do not have it is to have a venogram if you have symptoms of CCSVI.
Cat (Catherine Somerville on FB)
MegansMom
My 35 yo daughter is newly dx 8/19/10 (had 12 symptoms)
Dx with Type A CCSVI- 1 IJV & double "candy wrapper" appearance of her Azygos
Venoplasty done Sept 21, 2010
Doing extremely well-
User avatar
MegansMom
Family Elder
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:00 pm
Location: Central FL ( near Ocala)

Postby ikulo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:22 pm

all this conflicting research is beyond frustrating. :(
User avatar
ikulo
Family Elder
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: colorado

Postby civickiller » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:47 pm

they need to find a test that any radiologist can do to find blockages without having to be trained
User avatar
civickiller
Family Elder
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Hawaii

Postby scorpion » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:42 pm

civickiller wrote:they need to find a test that any radiologist can do to find blockages without having to be trained


or "they" need to be trained on why what they think they see is not CCSVI...
User avatar
scorpion
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1323
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:00 pm

Postby Cece » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:48 pm

I'm curious what we'll see if plethysmography studies are done. That should be the objective test that civickiller proposes.
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 9022
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Postby civickiller » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:58 pm

scorpion wrote:or "they" need to be trained on why what they think they see is not CCSVI...


i was kinda confused by that. so your saying IR's think theyre not seeing ccsvi but they really are?
User avatar
civickiller
Family Elder
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Hawaii

Postby se1956 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:48 pm

In Europe there were (are) trials for screening of breast cancer.

One result is, that such screenings only seem to make sense, when the images are examined by two experienced doctors independently.


R.
User avatar
se1956
Family Member
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:00 pm

Next

Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service