Massive study disputes Zamboni theory of multiple sclerosis

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Cece » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:59 pm

www.ajnr.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajnr.A2549v1

One of the recent studies showing an MS/CCSVI association.
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Postby civickiller » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:09 am

this kind of information reminds me of columbo,

C1 again is in another statement saying there are seeing blockages at that level and lower neck

How much more C1 blockages statements do we need before Dr's consider UCC
Last edited by civickiller on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby se1956 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:09 am

According to a BNAC study many people (22%) have some sort of CCSVI but the prevalence in pwMS is significantly higher (62%-90% late stages).

So these new genetic variants MAY FIT PERFECTLY TO CCSVI as a (major) risk factor for MS because with CCSVI and these genetic variants people may develop MS. May be there are other risk factors too – infections ...

(Same with smoking and lung cancer - smoking is not the cause of lung cancer, it is a major risk factor – the cause of lung cancer is some sort of cell dysfunction).

R.
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Postby NHE » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:02 am

se1956 wrote:(Same with smoking and lung cancer - smoking is not the cause of lung cancer, it is a major risk factor – the cause of lung cancer is some sort of cell dysfunction).


...cell dysfunction caused by inhaling known carcinogens!


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Re: Massive study disputes Zamboni theory of multiple sclero

Postby frodo » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:20 am

scorpion wrote:
The study identified more than two dozen new genetic variants common to people with MS and found the majority of genes involved are pivotal to the immune system.


David Hafler, professor and chair of the neurology department at the Yale School of Medicine, said it’s “shameful” so much attention and investment is being placed on an idea that is simply not true in light of findings about the immunological roots of the disease.

“We now know the cause of MS. It’s no longer a mystery,” said Dr. Hafler, who was involved with the new study.


He also hopes the new research can help quell “hysteria” surrounding the theory MS is caused by blocked neck veins.


Fat chance!


Even if the study is right its results are perfectly compatible with the CCSVI theory. CCSVI does not exclude the autoimmunity induced damage. It just explains how it starts. This study does not deal with that subject.

If its author intends to discredit the CCSVI theory with his results, then he is just doing false statements.
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Postby debp » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:22 am

Scorp, you are good at headlines. I thought the study was actually going to be about CCSVI.

Trying to quell the "hysteria" around CCSVI? Sounds like an emotional response and not a well thought out scientific one. That is the sort of crap that triggers an emotional response from me (makes me want to call him all sorts of not nice names). Not very productive.
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Puzzle

Postby fiddler » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:28 am

More pieces to the puzzle, it seems, but it hardly rules out a vascular component to MS initiation or MS symptoms, just doesn't provide support for it. Since they weren't looking for genetic markers for vascular diseases, they didn't find any - SURPRISE! And for some of the researchers to say that "now we know the cause of MS", and this PROVES that MS is strictly an autoimmune disease is a joke. If CCSVI researchers had made the same kind of statement on the basis of such equivocal findings, our in-house CCSVI skeptics would have been all over them. Instead, they give these researchers a pass. Shame.
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My blog: www.my-darn-ms.blogspot.com
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Postby Cece » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:08 am

'Hysteria' is not only unflattering but not particularly apt. People with MS are much too tired to be hysterical. And, in general, much too smart.

In this latest genetics study, researchers did identify two genetic variations that are involved in the metabolism of vitamin D.

Vitamin D is very involved in the endothelium. Interesting.

www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110811/ ... em-110811/

We still need the paper before we can really discuss the paper.
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Postby erinc14 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:57 am

Trish317 wrote:I'm glad you hit "Submit", AC. I agree with you.
me too!
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Postby PCakes » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:22 am

hysteria? ... the condescension and lack of interdisciplinary respect and professionalism is maddening.. why must there only be right or wrong??
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Postby David1949 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:27 am

One of the criticisms leveled at the CCSVI theory is that it doesn't explain the relationship of latitude to the distribution of MS cases. Does this new information explain that? As far as I can tell it doesn't.

Does this information offer a cure? No.
Or an improved treatment? No.

The article says: "While no one knows what causes the disease, many in the scientific community say a combination of genetic and environmental factors are involved." In other words they don't have a clue.

It also says: "A growing amount of research suggests a link between vitamin D deficiency and increased risk for MS." We all know that but how does that support the autoimmune theory over CCSVI?

As I read this it says; we the mainstream medical community can't cure you but we don't want you trying anything else, other than the lousy and espensive drugs we sell.
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Postby MrSuccess » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:48 am

just a reminder ..... Professor Zamboni has stated MS is an autoimmune disease. Professor Zamboni also stated that those on DMD's ..... continue with taking them. As is Mrs.Zamboni.

Until I read/hear differently .... from Professor Zamboni ..... I will accept this situation.

as for CCSVI ...... the theory is that blocked veins in the neck cause reduced exit flow of blood from the brain. This in turn causes some kind of injury to the brain. The autoimmune system then activates to - I venture a guess - repair a foreign substance that has broken through the blood brain barrier .....

the theory is that rectifying blood flow to normal volumes ..... allows the brain to function .......

Simple ? Yes. It just makes plain ..... sense.



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Postby civickiller » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:49 pm

Why are the Dr's doing ccsvi scans finding blockages at C1, why only C1, why cant it be C2, or C3? what makes C1 so special?
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Postby scorpion » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:23 pm

MrSuccess wrote:just a reminder ..... Professor Zamboni has stated MS is an autoimmune disease. Professor Zamboni also stated that those on DMD's ..... continue with taking them. As is Mrs.Zamboni.

Until I read/hear differently .... from Professor Zamboni ..... I will accept this situation.

as for CCSVI ...... the theory is that blocked veins in the neck cause reduced exit flow of blood from the brain. This in turn causes some kind of injury to the brain. The autoimmune system then activates to - I venture a guess - repair a foreign substance that has broken through the blood brain barrier .....

the theory is that rectifying blood flow to normal volumes ..... allows the brain to function .......

Simple ? Yes. It just makes plain ..... sense.

Mr.Success


Mr. Success you are saying because something sounds right it should be accepted as fact? A fact is not based on what makes sense but instead what is proven through scientific testing which is what everyone wanted a few years ago(at least I thought) to either validate or invalidate Zamboni's hypothesis. The excuses people are coming up with as to why these studies are not showing showing positive results are ridiculous. As someone with MS I would certianly love for these studies to be pointing in another direction but if MS is an autoimmune disease, it is an autoimmune disease. There will be people who will not accept that MS is an autoimmune disease no matter what studies/trials show but the majority of people with MS will ignore the emotional candor around CCSVI and focus on what these scientific studies are finding(either supporting CCSVI or not).
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Postby Cece » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:25 pm

civickiller wrote:Why are the Dr's doing ccsvi scans finding blockages at C1, why only C1, why cant it be C2, or C3? what makes C1 so special?

The blockages are found at the level of the valves, because 75% of CCSVI (give or take) are valve stenoses. The valves are where they are based on embryological development.
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