CCSVI A simple reason

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Postby Cece » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:15 pm

Thanks, I read it all.
He is saying that CCVBP is affecting the vertebral veins. No claims that it affects the jugular veins. That seems reasonable. The question would be if compromise of the vertebral veins, in the absence of any stenosis in the internal jugular veins or azygous, would still be deemed CCSVI.

Either way, if any of the blood flow outlets of the brain are compromised, it's good to do what can be done to unblock them.
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Postby fee001 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:21 pm

Cece,

I think everyone can work it out by themselves actually

But thanx anyway

Fiona
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Postby Cece » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:01 pm

I wish you well, fee, and as much happiness and health can be yours.

On my side, there is no personal conflict. I even like your 'yeahs', they are energetic and fun. As much as possible, I want information here to be accurate but it also is a place of support for everyone with MS or CCSVI or CCVBP.

August is a hard month. Looking forward to September.
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Postby fee001 » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:21 pm

Cece,

Trouble is I am quite adept at reading between the lines, as I have had the exact same experience on another forum.

So lets keep out of eachothers way ok

There is a much bigger picture here. its not about you or me, enuff said, just let it go.
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Postby Cece » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:24 pm

What happened on the other forum?
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Postby HappyPoet » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:50 pm

Cece, here's one last item I wanted you to read; I don't know if this will help...

Drs. Zamboni and Galeotti in Phlebology, 2010, "The chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency syndrome"

The cerebral veins collect blood into the dural sinuses and in turn redirected toward the main extracranial venous outflow routes: the internal jugular veins (IJVs) and the vertebral veins (VVs) system (Figure 1). The anatomical pathways of jugular drainage are well established.

<shortened url>

Figure 1 is very interesting; I wish I could figure out how to copy the image to here. (Can you try, Cece?) The colored areas represent the different levels of venous drainage of the Skull, Neck, Thorax, and Abdomen, and the solid black circles represent stenoses. Look at the VV and VP routes; I didn't realize that the VP doesn't start until the Thoracic level.
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Postby Cece » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:04 pm

At the start of the abstract he defines CCSVI as follows (it is the definition MarkW has been pointing to):
Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency (CCSVI) is a syndrome characterized by stenosies of the internal jugular and/or azygous veins (IJVs-AZ) with opening of collaterals and insufficient drainage proved by reduced cerebral blood flow and increased mean transit time in cerebral MRI perfusional study.

For me at least, I had bilateral jugular stenoses, and my verts were extra big because they were functioning as a collateral route for flow that couldn't go down the jugulars. If my atlas is misaligned and if indeed that compromises vertebral vein flow, then because I was over-relying on those vertebral veins, atlas misalignment could worsen the situation, and getting it straightened could improve it.

Patients who have an occluded jugular or a dural sinus abnormality or a hypoplasia might especially look into atlas misalignment, because in all those conditions, the vertebral veins would play a greater than normal role in cerebrospinal drainage.

This all depends on if it is true that atlas misalignment can slow the flow through the vertebral veins. Do you know if there is research supporting this? Or research underway?

We were talking earlier about the cause of CCSVI, I notice in this paper that Dr. Zamboni says the following:
As far as the origin of venous narrowing is concerned, phlebographic studies of the IJVs and AZ systems demonstrated that venous stenoses were likely to be truncular venous malformations; mostly, they are intraluminal defects such as malformed valve, septa webs.
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Postby Cece » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:09 pm

Here you go:
Image
Figure 1 Schematic of the cerebrospinal venous system with the location and relative prevalence of extracranial and extravertebral venous stenosis. DMCVs, deep middle cerebral veins; TS, transversal sinus; CV, condylar veins; VV, vertebral veins; IJV, internal jugular vein; VP, vertebral plexus; SVC, superior vena cava: AZY, azygous vein
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Postby HappyPoet » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:44 pm

Thanks, Cece, for copying the image to here! :)

Any idea what CP stands for in the Skull section?

Edit: I'll look into if there is any research regarding VVs. :)
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