This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

Hi!

I am not trying to upset anyone, thats not my style.

But what if the cause of CCSVI is a lot more simple. And because the cervical spine area has become comprimised, causes this to be a knock on affect.

Why would that not be a possibility? Why could it not happen? this isnt to inflame a situation but perhaps a rational, adult debate is needed and well over due.

Its only when ALL heads get together that a solution/answer may be found.

We can continue to work apart on this one, or meet somewhere in the middle.



Fiona

Hi!

Just so it is clear, I am not talking about treatment here ok. Just the cause.

Not heresay or what you've been told, but your own gut reaction.

The bottom line yeah! make it simple so even I can understand it yeah!


Thanx

Fiona

i think Upper Cervical Care is half the battle causing vein stenosis which isnt caused by the incompetent valve by shifting of the spine

the other half is incompetent valve caused from damage or its congenital

thoughts?

wont even get into the atlas putting pressure on the nerves

If we are discussing CCSVI as described by its discoverer, Dr. Paolo Zamboni of Italy, then it was described here as being "characterized by combined stenoses of the principal pathways of extracranial venous drainage, including the internal jugular veins and the azygous vein, with development of collateral circles and insufficient drainage":
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/p ... 1409015687

He also describes it in another paper as consisting of intraluminary defects, meaning defects inside the vein. (I could not find that paper, does anyone have it?)

And here it was agreed upon by a consortium of experts in phelobology that CCSVI represented a newly discovered form of congenital malformations:
http://tinyurl.com/4xnfb35

As far as I am aware, there is nothing about the atlas in any of Dr. Zamboni's research. This is not to say that this cannot be a fruitful line of investigation! But to have the idea posted in many threads, without clarifying that it is a separate theory from Dr. Zamboni's, is confusing.

It is the age of discovery, CeCe....why should the problems 'not' exist in other parts of the body?

Also, why does CCSVI 'only' causes trouble in the brain?? Imagine ccsvi in veins in the legs or arms, what would the result be? Numbness??
(i really dont know)

CCSVI in the legs....that would be chronic venous insufficiency, or varicose veins! It's what Dr. Zamboni used as an analogue in one of his first papers, 'The big idea':
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC16 ... ool=pubmed

I don't know why CVI doesn't exist in the arms though? Or maybe it does.

I would think anything in the body that can go wrong, does go wrong, although sometimes very rarely.

Cece,

You didnt get my point, the guy in Italy discovered a symptom not a cause.

Its the cause that needs to be discussed.

Try not to complicate it ok that again is my point. bottom line aas to what causes it.

Quote me a website that claims a cause and I will be very interested as to why they come to that conclusion.

Fiona

This is a research paper, not a website. They came to the conclusion through their expertise in phlebology, which would include both formal study and years of experience working in blood vessels.

CCSVI is not a symptom. A symptom of what? CCSVI is a disease of its own.

Here is a quote on how they classify venous malformations, which I think may be along the lines of what you're asking (how is it that CCSVI is classified as a venous malformation, thus saying that malformation is the cause of CCSVI):

Simply put, in case it was hidden in all of the above:

Congenital malformation is the primary cause of CCSVI, according to a large group of phlebology experts. We were born with bad veins or bad valves.

As Atlas misalinment can happen at birth.

There needs to be independant investigation by someone not involved in gaining any financial reward from CCSVI.

And Dr Zamboni has not elliminated it as cause eithe


Also lets not let a clash of personalities cloud our judgement eh! I think you know what I mean. This is not the time or the place ok

_________________
I do my own research, and find my own answers Its good to talk

i agree 100 per cent with fee001 and civickiller!! i become interested in ccsvi when i read trauma could be one of the causes. it would only make good sence and what i would think science should be looking at and including in their research of ccsvi--and ccsvbp is as much a part of this long sought after answer to symptoms they call ms and the symptoms of many other so called diseases. if there are obstructions to a stream or river it will not flow efficiently and our bodies are not so different. let alone the pressure a misaligned spine and atlas will have on nerves etc.

this has to have a meeting of the minds with the research going on.

after all, they are supposed to be trying to get us better---not proving a point that this or that is the main stay. keeping it n a box whether it is ccsvi or whatever has not worked in the past so what makes anyone think it ill now!!

we are all different and so will be the cures--it has to be some mutual gathering of the minds of all these good dr.'s to be in the interest of the patients. none of the dr.'s own ms but we have to live with fhe symptoms--the sooner they start working together the sooner we have a shot at getting some real answers and relief.

hope they can get their heads on straight and get this straightened out.

Dr. Zamboni is a phlebologist and vascular surgeon, not a chiropractor. He has investigated CCSVI in its context as a venous disease primarily consisting of within-the-vein defects. (Intraluminal=within the vein.)

It is great to be excited about atlas alignment. It is not great to confuse what is CCSVI and what is a misaligned atlas. A misaligned atlas certainly could cause issues on its own or in conjunction with CCSVI.

correction--i meant ccvbp not ccsvbp!! on the above comment.

blossom,

I wondered where you had got to, these past few days.

so gooday!! I think blossom is such a nice name, it just always makes me smile


Fiona

_________________
I do my own research, and find my own answers Its good to talk

For whatever they're worth, here are my thoughts:

CCSVI is a theory about congenital malformations inside veins.
CCVBP is a theory about misalignment of the Atlas vertebra.

Both theories are syndromes, not diseases.
Both theories give an explanation for a BBB breach and lesion formation.

CCSVI does not cause CCVBP.
Malformed veins cannot cause an Atlas to become physically misaligned.
Expert opinion of Phlebologists

CCVBP does not cause CCSVI.
Misalignment of the Atlas cannot cause a congenital venous malformation.
Expert opinion of Dr. Flanagan

A person can have both CCSVI and CCVBP -- I was diagnosed with both.