NEW! Slower cerebral circulation in pwMS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: NEW! Slower cerebral circulation in pwMS

Postby Ernst » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:03 pm

Professor Clive Beggs video is most interesting, about fluid dynamics.. and his opinion (about reduced CBF) is that the "reduced metabolic acitivty" can't be explanation to reduced CBF. In his video at 23 min --> ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37hFWVFFgXs&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
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Does the CCSVI procedure correct this symptom ??

Postby MarkW » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:15 pm

This could be used as a measure of success of the CCSVI procedure. Conduct the test before and after the CCSVI procedure, hopefully a significant improvement. We need tests to show that the CCSVI procedure does something, this one seems ideal.
MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: Does the CCSVI procedure correct this symptom ??

Postby cheerleader » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:47 am

MarkW wrote:This could be used as a measure of success of the CCSVI procedure. Conduct the test before and after the CCSVI procedure, hopefully a significant improvement. We need tests to show that the CCSVI procedure does something, this one seems ideal.
MarkW


Absolutely right, Mark! That's what Dr. Haacke is doing...and it's showing some impressive results post venoplasty. Can't wait until he publishes his perfusion studies...
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Increased cerebral circulation after venoplasty in pwMS

Postby MarkW » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:14 am

I hope Prof Haacke does not call them perfusion studies. I suggest:
'Changes in cerebral circulation after venoplasty in pwMS'.
The precise wording of research findings needs to be attack proofed. That will make it more difficult for anti CCSVI neuros to attack the findings. Prof Dake's recent conference paper made reasonable statements to an open minded person but we are not dealing with open minded neuros.
If this research is conducted as a stand alone study it could be completed very quickly (few months). No need to report other changes in subjects (MRI, EDSS etc).
Any info on the timing of the release of the study ?

MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: NEW! Slower cerebral circulation in pwMS

Postby 1eye » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:25 am

Actually pressure is not resistance. Resistance is a property of a thing that makes it resist pressure. It varies, depending on things like diameter (stenosis is a narrowing of diameter) and as it does, the pressure, which is a force, or potential energy, causes more or less flow.
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Re: NEW! Slower cerebral circulation in pwMS

Postby 1eye » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:38 am

I don't think you'll find most scientists, whether in Engineering or Neurology, defining pressure as resistance to anything, flow, current, falling elevators...

Pressure is the force generated by the heart. And in CCSVI, and elevators, also by gravity.

If the elevators have brakes. there's some resistance. Or perhaps narrow doors... :lol:
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Re: NEW! Slower cerebral circulation in pwMS

Postby MrSuccess » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:03 am

oneeye - I think electronics is your field of expertise ...... you might find it helpful to research some fluid mechanics textbooks. Amps Ohms Resistors ? Nothing to relate to in regard to CCSVI.

Pressure is defined as RESISTANCE to FLOW. To illustrate this here on TIMS .... I gave a simple example ........ I'll do so again.

A simple garden hose is connected to your home plumbing . It has no nozzle on the free end . You turn the water on . Water flows freely out of the hose . There is nothing stopping it , it just continues on and on . This condition is called FLOW.

Now put your thumb over the end of the hose. The water stops coming out . The water is now pressing on your thumb.It hurts a little. This condition is called PRESSURE.

Removing your thumb [ the restriction ] allows the water to flow once again.

Pressure , useful in many way's , can be dangerous if not harnessed and controlled.

However , the CCSVI experts are focusing on FLOW problems.

And doing a damn fine job , I might add.



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Re: NEW! Slower cerebral circulation in pwMS

Postby 1eye » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:12 pm

Nothing wrong with amps and ohms, since both electricity and blood are fluids. You will never get me to believe that pressure equals resistance. Regardless of what you do to or with your garden hose...

Flow is the movement of fluids. Pressure causes that flow. Resistance, well, resists it. Hinders? :lol:
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Re: NEW! Slower cerebral circulation in pwMS

Postby 1eye » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:34 pm

There is also a misconception that the pressure gradient causes the flow. It is true that if you have one you are likely to get the other, but if there is a sufficiently high resistance (like your thumb), no flow will happen. The pressure from the pump has not changed. You will find it takes more power when you plug up the hose. You could also say that the resistance caused the pressure to drop when it caused the flow to slow. There is no flow through your thumb, but there is still a big pressure gradient between the hose side and the thumbnail side. That is because the thumb has such a high resistance.

In electronics we say there is an amount of voltage (pressure) drop "across" the resistor, and that it is proportional to the amount of the flow and the amount of the resistance. That is Ohm's law, and it applies to all fluids. Right, Dr. Haacke?
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Re: NEW! Slower cerebral circulation in pwMS

Postby 1eye » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:52 pm

Flow is not the velocity of fluid. It is the rate of movement of a unit of volume of fluid past a point in space per unit of time. Thus, though through a small pipe the fluid seems to be moving faster, even though the pipes on both sides of the small channel are bigger, the flow is the same in all three, and is limited by the diameter of the narrow pipe. A drain is no faster than it's slowest pipe.
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