a CCSVI imaging study from Spain

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: a CCSVI imaging study from Spain

Postby sou » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:54 pm

Let's suppose that CCSVI is caused by MS. Neurologists claim that they can manage MS symptoms. So, why manage all other symptoms, but not this symptom? Are they so afraid of really curing something for the first time in their career? (Yes, CCSVI is curable in many cases)
Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
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Re: a CCSVI imaging study from Spain

Postby Cece » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:31 pm

Sounds to me like the neurologic dept which conducted this study is concluding that ccsvi falls under their purview, that it is a "dysregulation of nerve signals" caused of course by MS.

Wow, if that neuro dept would only look with their IVUS, I do not think they would confuse a bad valve with a dysregulation of nerve signals.
What, the neuro dept doesn't have an IVUS?
There's their problem then.
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Re: Getting Picky

Postby 1eye » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:16 pm

MarkW wrote:...
PS CCSVI is a syndrome not a condition. An important difference in the argument with neuros.

Isn't semantics fun? I usually call it the procedure and the context gives it all away. My walker helps, too. If I want a word, I use venoplasty. I don't think many are very confused anymore, thanks to Dr. Sclafani, et al. I think the what it is is more important than the what you McCall it. I think Irving Layton wrote a poem about that.

"...i think abraham lincoln said that.
you can be in my dream if i can be in yours. i said that."
-Robert Milkwood Thomas
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
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Re: Turf War goes on..............

Postby CureOrBust » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:21 am

MarkW wrote:If faced with this situation CureIous. I would tell any neuro that I prefer an IR to fix my veins rather than a neuro.............
The paper supports the treatment of CCSVI syndrome by an expert. Even the most arrogant neuro would not argue they are experts in fixing CCSVI syndrome, would they ??
I would hazard a guess that the neuro would most likely take the stance of:
Hypothetical Neuro wrote:1. There is no proof that CCSVI causes the damage in MS
2. It is best to treat the cause of the CCSVI (ie the "dysregulation of nerve signals", ie our current understanding of MS)
3. Until there is proof (ie phase III studies), I would recommend you wait, till more is known.
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Re: Turf War goes on..............

Postby Cece » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:20 am

CureOrBust wrote:
MarkW wrote:If faced with this situation CureIous. I would tell any neuro that I prefer an IR to fix my veins rather than a neuro.............
The paper supports the treatment of CCSVI syndrome by an expert. Even the most arrogant neuro would not argue they are experts in fixing CCSVI syndrome, would they ??
I would hazard a guess that the neuro would most likely take the stance of:
Hypothetical Neuro wrote:1. There is no proof that CCSVI causes the damage in MS
2. It is best to treat the cause of the CCSVI (ie the "dysregulation of nerve signals", ie our current understanding of MS)
3. Until there is proof (ie phase III studies), I would recommend you wait, till more is known.

There would probably be a point in there about how dangerous angioplasty of the jugulars is.
I really see that some of these argument cannot be made if there is an understanding of what CCSVI is proposed to be. I don't know if dysregulation of nerve signals could create narrowings of veins but it could not create intraluminal irregularities such as malformed valves or webs or septums. Intraluminal irregularities were mentioned from the beginning in Dr. Zamboni's work.
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Re: a CCSVI imaging study from Spain

Postby 1eye » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:41 am

dysregulation of nerve signals could create narrowings of veins but it could not create intraluminal irregularities such as malformed valves or webs or septums. Intraluminal irregularities were mentioned from the beginning in Dr. Zamboni's work.

Exactly. The whole thing sounds like the stupidest, most desperate excuse for an argument I have ever heard or read. Then I must remember, we are dealing here with the brightest and best, so it only stands to reason. (finger down throat to see if fly I swallowed can be lured out)
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
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CCSVI imaging study from Italy

Postby MarkW » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:56 am

I looked up the full paper and found this research was performed in Sienna, Italy.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0025012
Worth a read. It will be interesting to see if this group follow up the initial finding.

Please repeat the following to the neuro:
"CCSVI syndrome mostly impacts valves in the IJV and azygous. I need a vascular expert to diagnose and treat this CCSVI syndrome." It will take a long time for the message to sink in for the neuro.

MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: a CCSVI imaging study from Spain

Postby Cece » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:06 pm

1eye wrote:But I am concerned (no not that again!) that I will wear out my non-jugular drainage routes that way.

Oh the memories (bad)....
Someone identifying as "Concerned" posted in the comments section of this other article.
http://www.healthydebate.ca/2011/10/top ... e#comments
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