How fast can collateral veins grow ?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby ozarkcanoer » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:44 pm

I used to come here on a very regular basis. I was treated for CCSVI August 17, 2010 by Dr H at the University of Maryland Medical Center (many of you should know who this is). He found narrowing in both IJVs and a twist in my azygous. He inserted a stent in both of my IJVs very high up near my ears and ballooned my azygous. I felt very good immediately afterwards.

I had a follow-up procedure in April 2011 by the same IR. This time my left stent was occluded but my right stent was (is) blocked.

I had follow-up sonography of both IJVs here in St Louis by Dr V, an IR colleague of Dr H and a professor at the Washington University School of Medicine. I visited Dr V three times for sonography exams. Dr V communicated the results with Dr H. I had my last visit with Dr V just last week. Now it looks like both of my stents are occluded. Dr V mentioned that he saw collateral veins around the occluded stents. I asked him if he thought the collaterals were there before or after my original procedure last August and he said he didn't know, that perhaps my IJVs were originally so narrow that there were collaterals before. I know I had a lot of collaterals before from observing my MRV I got at BNAC.

My question is : can collateral veins grow around an occlusion in 1 year ?
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Re: How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby CindyCB » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:12 am

I would have thought so - my MIL got a clot near her ankle earlier this year (she has pancreatic cancer, apparently this is common) and at her last U/S about 2 months ago they told her collaterals had grown in place - a lot of the redness and heat she experienced in that area has subsided. This has taken about 6 months.

I personally grew collaterals in my hand after a vein collaped due to canula insertion. That took about 4 months - very small veins though.
Thyroid disease, Vitamin D deficiency, hypermobility, 'ME/CFS', CCSVI (stenosis both sides and assymetric malformed valves), TMJ - No MS but many neuro symptoms.
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Re: How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby DrCumming » Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:14 am

hi,

yes collaterals can develop very quickly. in most instances, these are existing veins that enlarge. the question is do the collaterals provided adequate drainage or not. its one of the arguments from naysayers as to why ccsvi does not exist.
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Re: How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby DougL » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:03 am

DrCumming wrote: the question is do the collaterals provided adequate drainage or not.


adequate to keep you alive or adequate to keep you healthy?
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Re: How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby Cece » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:06 am

It's good to see you here, ozarkcanoer. It is really upsetting about the two occlusions though.

It is possible that there are people for whom the collaterals are sufficient, who then do not end up getting MS, and we never know about them.

Here in this random forum that came up in google
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Heart-Dise ... ow/1086947
they are a group of heart patients discussing collaterals in heart disease. One of them says that they know someone who lost 30% of his heart muscle because he did not grow collaterals. It is something we have not talked about much: are there differences among us as to how efficient we are at growing collaterals? Can Pharma provide a drug that strengthens and increases our collaterals, especially for those who have untreatable CCSVI? What about exercise?
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Re: How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby dania » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:43 am

My last angioplasty was July 2010. All 3 veins have been 100% blocked /occluded for over a year.
COLLATERALS ARE NOT ENOUGH!!!!!
In my case it is visibly obvious. Very red and swollen face.
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Re: How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby 1eye » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:21 am

If collateral growth is responsible for remission (the inverse of restenosis being responsible for relapse) my first major spurt in response to "MS" was about 5 or 6 months.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
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Re: How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby MrSuccess » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:45 pm

it's a wonderous thing ....... collateral growth . A pretty good Plan B.

However. Plan A ......... is the goal.

A long time ago , someone posted the response they got from their doctor , in that CCSVI is nothing to worry about , as the body will resort to providing blood flow via collaterals.

That's about as stupid as saying , don't worry about losing your left arm ..... your body will compensate ........ after all ........ you still have your right arm !

How do stupid people get through Med school ?



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Re: How fast can collateral veins grow ?

Postby Cece » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:46 am

What I read about collaterals in relation to heart disease is that you grow enough collaterals to function at rest, but not enough to function for during activity.

In that disease, you don't get told that your collaterals are good enough.
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