JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby drsclafani » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:41 am

blossom wrote:it makes no sence that blood flow can "only" be hindered from the inside of a jugular or vein. or even csf flow. compression no matter what the source would have to have an effect. try tieing something around a leg, arm or finger. leave it on there long enough and you are in trouble. why would it be any different with jugulars or arteries. why wouldn't skull compression or vertebra compression be different? compression is compression. whatever the hinderance it's bound to produce bad results.

civickiller is right.


Yes, obstructions of the cerebral outflow can be significant. Can cause symptoms of cerebral hypertension.But just to clarify, by the Schelling model, it doesnt cause ccsvi. Schelling suggests that forceful meck movements that activate the neck strap m uscles compress dilated IJV and, in the prsence of J1 obstructions causes forceful reflux above the valve into the deep cerebral veins. If this is true, then obstructions at the skull base protects against that because that forceful reflux cannot get above the obstructions.

All hypothetical thoughts on my part.

Thanks Cece, these are very helpful. You can help me on my papers anytime
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby Cece » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:50 am

There are so few papers on jugulars and cerebral outflow, it's a surprise when anything turns up.
I'm flattered that these can be of help and very happy that you are doing research and papers on CCSVI. There is so much to be done!
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby Amir » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:35 pm

Cece wrote:There are so few papers on jugulars and cerebral outflow, it's a surprise when anything turns up.
I'm flattered that these can be of help and very happy that you are doing research and papers on CCSVI. There is so much to be done!



I might be slightly off track here but perhaps someone can help clear something for me.

There was a paper published about the study of MS using the upright scanner in NY. I distinctly remember them saying that raised CSF pressure caused the CSF to leak from the ventricles into the brain parenchyma. I need clearance that they do mean parenchyma and not stroma which I suspect they should have said!
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby Robnl » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:38 am

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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby 1eye » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:48 am

It must be great to be alive and have an understanding of these new areas of human knowledge at this seminal period of discovery in this field. I just want to play guitar and walk. I don't suppose I will get that far, but thanks anyway, to all of you with the curiosity and insight to pursue these matters. You will be remembered well in the pages of history, and you are in a humble way appreciated in your own time.
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby Amir » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:15 pm

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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby 1eye » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:38 pm

If the jugular and the nerves are enclosed in a sheath, wouldn't the jugular expanding compress nerves, if the sheath is filled to capacity and not expandable like veins may be?
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby EJC » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:47 pm

Amir wrote:
Cece wrote:There are so few papers on jugulars and cerebral outflow, it's a surprise when anything turns up.
I'm flattered that these can be of help and very happy that you are doing research and papers on CCSVI. There is so much to be done!



I might be slightly off track here but perhaps someone can help clear something for me.

There was a paper published about the study of MS using the upright scanner in NY. I distinctly remember them saying that raised CSF pressure caused the CSF to leak from the ventricles into the brain parenchyma. I need clearance that they do mean parenchyma and not stroma which I suspect they should have said!




Amir mentioned this thread to me again this afternoon. This is quite a fundamental medical question he has for the people running this study and he's tried contacting them directly via the address details quoted in the pdf document above but has had no response.

If there is anyone posting on the forum that has the ability to contact Fonar could they please pose the question regarding parenchyma and stroma as asked above.

Apparently this could be ground breaking.
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby muse » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:16 am

Maybe the great book “The images and its message” by Dr. Franz Schelling http://www.ms-info.net/evo/msmanu/839.htm would be helpful, particularly chapter V. It’s free of charge for everyone.
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"MS" doesn't exist! - CCSVI dx Nov.2009, 1. angio LVJ & RVJ June 2010, 2. angio RVJ April 2011, January 2012 2. restenosis, reversed after ~1 year intake of high dosage Magnesium only. ThisIsCCSVIinMS: http://tinyurl.com/nwy5x58
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby 1eye » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:00 pm

Cece wrote:and this one:
http://www.ajronline.org/content/142/2/403.full.pdf

Jugular Vein Obstruction Caused by Turning of the Head


It mentions that in a study of dural sinuses, only 57% of sinuses had free communication across all sinuses and both sides. Thus if there is one-sided obstruction, the sinus might not be the safety net that diverts blood flow easily to the other side. Sinuses are a part of the CCSVI picture.

The article also talks about compression of the jugular when you turn your head. If you turn your head to the right, the right jugular is compressed but the left remains open.
If you want to visualize these sinuses, vertebrae, and sheaths, a tool at this link will help. I don't know how to plug in arbitrary images, but I'm sure you could.
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby Cece » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:19 pm

Thanks for that link, 1eye.

According to Dr. Arata on Facebook, "Transoral styloidectomy by Dr. Duma now available for dysautonomia with stylocervical compression. @cduma.com"

I hope Dr. Duma will collect his data and publish. I have sluggish flow at the top of my left jugular probably due to a compression. When I had an ultrasound done pre-venoplasty, there was no flow in the left jugular when upright looking straight ahead, but it opened up when I turned my head to the right. I might well be a candidate for styloidectomy depending on just what is causing the compression. But I am not going to jump in! I am doing well currently. I would like to see this better studied and the only way for that to happen is for the doctors to collect the data.
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby drsclafani » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:51 pm

If you hold your breath blood flow in the vena cava will stop. if you sit with knees flexed venous blood flow will stop. if you change positions of your neck venous flow will stop.

i think that venous flow is generally phasic so be cautious how yor interpret these observations
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Re: JUGULAR VEIN COMPRESSION

Postby drsclafani » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:10 pm

1eye wrote:If the jugular and the nerves are enclosed in a sheath, wouldn't the jugular expanding compress nerves, if the sheath is filled to capacity and not expandable like veins may be?

1eye
Nerve compression results in reduction of arterial or arteriolar blood flow. Fortunately venous pressure is rarely so elevated to cause adjacent nerve ischemia. The classic nerve injury of lower extremity compartment injury is evaluated by direct measurement of tissue pressure and it has been shown to require much higher than venous pressure seen in jugular obstructions
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