AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney London UK

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby tuftyone » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:26 am

amanda6 wrote:
EJC wrote:Hello Amanda and Welcome.

What treatment are you undertaking with your dentist? (If you don't mind me asking).


I had orthodontics when I was a child in the 1980s. I had 4 premolars extracted and fixed braces.

My current dental treatment is expand my narrow upper arch with orthodontics, and to enable my lower jaw to reposition further forward when I bite. Before treatment I had an MRI of my TMJ which showed I have displaced discs with reduction on both sides of my TMJ.



I'm having more or less the same treatment with Amir; adjusting my jaw and sorting out the asymmetry. Sounds like your Dentist is on ther right track and I hope this works for you. Visually, my jaw is/was clearly too far back and I used to suffer with a lot of neck and shoulder pains. I was diagnosed with "MS" 12 years ago. There is clearly a correlation with MS or other symptoms relating to jaw problems and assymetry.

Another plus is that I'm actually starting to develop something ressembling a chin :)
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby CureOrBust » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:07 am

Amir wrote:You appear to have a consistent habit of nit picking on every post and deflect the readers from the important points at issue.
Read the site's policies, and you will see that my posts try to follow it by identifying items you have raised in your posts, not at you personally; as you have done here. If I wanted to be a troll, I would of asked if you were avoiding discussions with a knowledgeable professional who would most likely disagree with you. :evil:

Amir wrote:I need the patients to know about something very important for the management of their symptoms. There are too many patients ending up with surgery that they did not need and also treatment which is potentially harmful or not necessary.
It would seem that the patients on the other thread are the ones more likely to be under a misunderstanding, so if you really need them to understand, a post on the other thread would be best I think. :?

Amir wrote:I am reading many threads and if I find something that I feel I must point out I shall do so for the furtherance of knowledge. Dr Flanagan is an esteemed practitioner and this was posted on his thread more than a year ago.
Please do so, and all I am saying is that it would be best on the other thread, no matter how old. It may be good for Dr Flannigan to possibly change his previous view and agree with you; or not.

Amir wrote:There are many other postings that I totally disagree with but I do not want to upset anyone.
Your personal attack above has upset me.

Amir wrote:What I quoted is a common belief in Chiropractic and must be dispelled.
If it must be dispelled, then I do not see a better person to discuss it with than a chiropractor who stated the belief.

Amir wrote:So it was the POINT I was raising not the person who made the statement. You cannot help letting the cat out of the bag!
Disagreeing with someone on a forum is not a personal attack against the person that made the original post. A discussion with Dr Flannigan may lead to an increase in knowledge of both of you.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby CureOrBust » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:12 am

tuftyone wrote:Another plus is that I'm actually starting to develop something ressembling a chin :)
From memory, EJC's wife and now yourself are having treatment, and are posting on this site. The issue I have with these two cases and how it applies to myself, is that both involve "obvious" jaw issues / asymmetries. I myself have no obvious asymmetry or issues, and I have a chin 8)

Is there anyone I missed who is posting on this site with MS, Jaw treatments and no obvious issues?
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby PABCalifornia » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:54 am

Dear CureorBust:

To answer your question: yes, I've had two MRIs. The first was in the US and used to help determine my initial diagnosis at 28; and the second was in the UK about 4 years ago, which was used, I presume, to establish the diagnosis before assigning me to a neurologist here in the UK and granting me access to MS drugs which I declined. Here in the UK the medical services (NHS) won't offer 'progression monitoring' MRIs once a diagnosis has been made. Even private insurance, which I'm fortunate enough to have, won't approve such 'niceties' as they view them. The financial austerity measures being brought in come Jan 2013 will likely not improve the situation.

Moral dilemma
I have never discussed my MS online and rarely discuss it in my personal life. I see it as a private matter. As a global senior manager for a Big 4 accounting firm and a former biotech auditor, I am not given over to hysterics, the use of superlatives or even the propensity to smile sometimes (a little joke), so I found it quite easy to remain silent when I began to see not only the cessation of MS symptons but the experience of a new level of health.

I convinced myself further in the choice to remain silent because it seemed insensitive to discuss something that may benefit many people and then reveal that it seems to only be available in London and it's not free. Last weekend, however, something happened which made me realise that by keeping silent I am perhaps being even more unfair.

If there is a chance that after the initial 13 years of battling, the last two years of my progressively improving health could be experienced by other MS sufferers then perhaps I could help as only an accountant can. I can recount my experience, perhaps increasing demand for the type of service that Dr Amir provides so that the profit motivated medical industry in the US takes notice, and highlight the return on investment which might be realised if well controlled clinical study were to be funded by the right organisation. So, we shall see.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby EJC » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:55 am

CureOrBust wrote:
tuftyone wrote:Another plus is that I'm actually starting to develop something ressembling a chin :)
From memory, EJC's wife and now yourself are having treatment, and are posting on this site. The issue I have with these two cases and how it applies to myself, is that both involve "obvious" jaw issues / asymmetries. I myself have no obvious asymmetry or issues, and I have a chin 8)

Is there anyone I missed who is posting on this site with MS, Jaw treatments and no obvious issues?


Emma's jaw misalignment was only obvious when we looked at the Xrays, as both her upper and lower jaws were underdeveloped. As both were misaligned her face was "balanced". Don't assume the misalignemnt means you have obvious over or underbite on either upper or lower jaw.

The thing about this is, there are degrees of misalignment, in cases like Emma's it's quite obvious once it's been explained, but in others the misalignment can be subtle to a degree that it's not obvious at all to anyone who doesn't know what they are looking for.
Last edited by EJC on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby EJC » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:16 am

PABCalifornia wrote:Dear CureorBust:

I convinced myself further in the choice to remain silent because it seemed insensitive to discuss something that may benefit many people and then reveal that it seems to only be available in London and it's not free. Last weekend, however, something happened which made me realise that by keeping silent I am perhaps being even more unfair.

If there is a chance that after the initial 13 years of battling, the last two years of my progressively improving health could be experienced by other MS sufferers then perhaps I could help as only an accountant can. I can recount my experience, perhaps increasing demand for the type of service that Dr Amir provides so that the profit motivated medical industry in the US takes notice, and highlight the return on investment which might be realised if well controlled clinical study were to be funded by the right organisation. So, we shall see.


It's interesting you went through this thought process.

My first thought was to broadcast to as many people as possible what we'd found. At that point I hadn't even considered the issue of Dr Amir being one person and in London, it was when we started getting the first repsonses and requests for further information that I wondered if I'd actually been a little thoughtless.

The more I thought about this the more I realised it would be unreasonable not to let as many people as possible know about the treatment, not only that but also publicly post a diary on how Emma was reacting to the treatment in real time.

Of course, this opens us up to support and critism equally.

I encouraged Dr Amir to post here and I'm delighted he is. You can see from his posts he's not the usual run of the mill Doctor. If he was he would proabbly have never taken the course through life that he's on now. He has a natural curiosity about any and every non invasive non drug related treatment that can help patients. In a word he is fanatical about it.

With this comes the risk that some people will see him as out of the ordinary, which he is, but we're all the better for it. It's people that chose to think differently that make the difference.

With Emma we are posting details of her treatment from day one for all to see with Amir's blessing, that's a brave thing to endorse and he's putting his head on the block by doing so.

Unlike CCSVI, jaw misalignment and spine problems are not an "instant" fix. It takes time. In Emma's case we have two to three months of manouvering teeth into a postion where the jaw itself can start to be addressed. In total there could be two or three years of treatement to Emma's jaws where they should be.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby tuftyone » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:37 am

CureOrBust wrote:
tuftyone wrote:Another plus is that I'm actually starting to develop something ressembling a chin :)
From memory, EJC's wife and now yourself are having treatment, and are posting on this site. The issue I have with these two cases and how it applies to myself, is that both involve "obvious" jaw issues / asymmetries. I myself have no obvious asymmetry or issues, and I have a chin 8)

Is there anyone I missed who is posting on this site with MS, Jaw treatments and no obvious issues?



If you read Amir's earlier and other posts on this subect, you see that even the slightest assymmetry can cause massive problems for people. These mis-alignments and symetries won't of course be "obvious" for a lot of people and my chin comment was an attempt at being slightly light-hearted. I think you'd only really know if you had a jaw or atlas issue if you had a proper consultation with someone with Amir's experience.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby amanda6 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:47 am

CureOrBust wrote:
tuftyone wrote:Another plus is that I'm actually starting to develop something ressembling a chin :)
From memory, EJC's wife and now yourself are having treatment, and are posting on this site. The issue I have with these two cases and how it applies to myself, is that both involve "obvious" jaw issues / asymmetries. I myself have no obvious asymmetry or issues, and I have a chin 8)

Is there anyone I missed who is posting on this site with MS, Jaw treatments and no obvious issues?


As I have had jaw clicking for many years before I went to a dentist for treatment of my TMJ, it was already obvious to me that I had jaw issues. It wasn’t until I went to the dentist who treats the TMJ that I understood that my jaw issues are caused by an incorrect position of my jaw which are related to the bite. Through reading forums on TMJ dysfunction I have discovered that there are people who have jaw problems, and displaced discs in the TMJ, but without the clicking that I have had.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby coach » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:00 am

Are those that pursuing this treatment secondary progressive patients? Does it help these patients? Do their MRI scans show an improvement in lesions? Just wondering if MRI evidence shows an improvement.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby amanda6 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:19 am

PABCalifornia wrote:

I convinced myself further in the choice to remain silent because it seemed insensitive to discuss something that may benefit many people and then reveal that it seems to only be available in London and it's not free. Last weekend, however, something happened which made me realise that by keeping silent I am perhaps being even more unfair.



There other dentists who also treat the TMJ by correcting the alignment of the jaw, though there could well be variations on the methods used. You would think really that it should be the responsibility of all dentists to make sure your bite is correctly aligned for good jaw joint function, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the case.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby EJC » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:02 am

coach wrote:Are those that pursuing this treatment secondary progressive patients? Does it help these patients? Do their MRI scans show an improvement in lesions? Just wondering if MRI evidence shows an improvement.


Emma is Relapse Remitting but was borderline SPMS before CCSVI. Her EDSS is currently 6.5

MRI scans are an expensive luxury we can't simply request here in the UK (unless we pay for them). So it's not practical for us to pop in for an MRI just to see how tings are going.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby Amir » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:50 am

CureOrBust wrote:
tuftyone wrote:Another plus is that I'm actually starting to develop something ressembling a chin :)
From memory, EJC's wife and now yourself are having treatment, and are posting on this site. The issue I have with these two cases and how it applies to myself, is that both involve "obvious" jaw issues / asymmetries. I myself have no obvious asymmetry or issues, and I have a chin 8)

Is there anyone I missed who is posting on this site with MS, Jaw treatments and no obvious issues?


Please read Mary Maguires article in the earlier pages. She had no OBVIOUS dental or jaw issues .
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby Amir » Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:20 pm

CureOrBust wrote:
Amir wrote:
Amir wrote:There are many other postings that I totally disagree with but I do not want to upset anyone.
"Your personal attack above has upset me."

I sincerely apologise for upsetting you personally.

Amir wrote:What I quoted is a common belief in Chiropractic and must be dispelled.
CureORBust wrote:
"If it must be dispelled, then I do not see a better person to discuss it with than a chiropractor who stated the belief."


Some smart person passed my posting to Dr Flanagan and I welcome his input.
I am sure many chiros have either seen the post or been shown by some readers. I welcome any input they have. (By the way thanks to the person who posted it on Dr Flangans thread. The hits on this thread have doubled)

At the end of the day a fact is a fact. There is nothing like he says this and I say that. One of us is right and the truth must prevail for the sake of the patients. Not too long ago I suffered ill health. I know what pain, fatigue and helplessness is all about. I do not want anyone else to suffer a day longer and I am sticking my neck out in trying to open patients eyes that there is a different dimension to this illness. Perhaps soon this illness will be far better managed and no one will die from it. I can only do it if I have encouragement from you lot.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby KHL » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:42 pm

KHL wrote:I am seeing Amir on the 12th for my first fitting :-)


Well first fitting successful and brace fitted and have to say that although I started this treatment to help with my MS symptoms, I had the best nights sleep for months. My usually painful hip was pain free... thank you Dr Amir
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby Amir » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:00 pm

KHL wrote:
KHL wrote:I am seeing Amir on the 12th for my first fitting :-)


Well first fitting successful and brace fitted and have to say that although I started this treatment to help with my MS symptoms, I had the best nights sleep for months. My usually painful hip was pain free... thank you Dr Amir


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