AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney London UK

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby DougL » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:31 pm

Amir wrote: Repeated adjustments to the Atlas, I would consider, unwise. It normally corrects in one go and remains so until a patient suffers a serious accident or a fall.


very good info to know. thank you
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby CindyCB » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:41 am

I just wanted to make a post to say I had a lengthy and interesting appointment with Dr Amir yesterday.

As you can see my from signature under my post I do not have MS but have been previously given a diagnosis of CCSVI by two clinics. I have not as yet had treatment for the CCSVI. I have symptoms that are MS-like in some ways but have only really been given the 'diagnosis' of CFS/ME which I have never been happy with.

Like Emma I will also be starting treatment soon with dental appliances and will require atlas balancing once treatment is underway.

I was given a cortisone shot in my jaw joint on Tuesday this week (by a different dental surgeon before I saw Dr Amir) with some interesting results. I have had a reduction in neuralgic pain and muscle spasms in the right side of my body so far and also a pleasant reduction in headaches and migraine type symptoms. My dizziness had reduced somewhat (which has helped my balance)and my tinnitus is better.

The cortisone shot is by no means a solution but more of an indicator to me. I would prefer to undertake long term treatment to realign my temporomandibular joint and lower jaw to where it should be. I feel longer term relief of symptoms will happen this way.

I've had a clicky jaw for a number of years and I think a combination of having harsh neck adjustments by an osteopath (I did not research her well so do not know what her qualifications were) and lots of dental work combined with misalignment of the jaw all added up to make me very ill over a course of time.

If anyone feels it would be of use I could also document my treatment and progression along the way - should I be posting this in the CCSVI section or elsewhere? I appreciate I do not have MS but I have been offered CCSVI angioplasty with one clinic so feel it's very relevant to this forum in general to see what the outcome ends up being.
Thyroid disease, Vitamin D deficiency, hypermobility, 'ME/CFS', CCSVI (stenosis both sides and assymetric malformed valves), TMJ - No MS but many neuro symptoms.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby blossom » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:00 am

i would like to hear and follow your experience with all this. it would be interesting when all is said and done the effect it has on your symptoms and even the ccsvi.

i think it would be good on this site. there are some that may need a little tweeking before the ccsvi treatment and maybe it will help for a better outcome over all.

the best to you.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby EJC » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:00 pm

Hello Cindy.

Start another thread specifically for your treatment on the CCSVI forum. There's a suggestion that there could be link between jaw/atlas misalignment and CCSVI and there is by far greater footfall on this part of the forum than any other.

Personally I think there is something to CCSVI having seen Emma's initial response to it, however I feel it's a symptom not a cause. Find the casue of CCSVI and we're another step closer to helping MS sufferers.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby NZer1 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:20 pm

Hi Cindy, have you ever had evaluation for Chiari Malformation issues? http://chiarione.org/symptoms.html
I have noticed that there are a few of us with symptoms that fit more in this box than in an MS box. Having CCSVI as well would make sense as the brain would possibly not be well supported by CSF. Whether atlas alignment will change a fluid issue in Chiari is yet to be established.

EJC I am interested to understand what you are meaning when you say "find the cause of CCSVI"? If I'm not mistaken that has been established as 'in-vivio' malformations. Malformations that have occurred in the development stage in the womb. The original thoughts about what was a flow issue have been super-ceded.

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby EJC » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:39 pm

NZer1 wrote:
EJC I am interested to understand what you are meaning when you say "find the cause of CCSVI"? If I'm not mistaken that has been established as 'in-vivio' malformations. Malformations that have occurred in the development stage in the womb. The original thoughts about what was a flow issue have been super-ceded.

Regards Nigel


Emma had treatment for CCSVI, she had malformed valves, hypoplasia of the left IJV and a narrowed azygos. The results were good, but lasted no more than 3 months before gradually returning to her pre procedure level. I'm not entirely sure anything about CCSVI has yet to be completely established, we're still not that far beyond birth stage of the theroy and treatment.

In Emma's case she didn't get any "MS" symptoms until her late teens. If the problems were congenital, why did they take the best part of 20 years to have any effect? Something aggravated the veins or blood flow IMO.

I just feel if it's a congential birth defect there will be a slow steady decline from birth, not a sudden onset of symptoms usually after an "event" in the persons physical life.

I just feel CCSVI is part of the answer, something else (possibly atlas or jaw related) is another part, there may be a further complication again on top of this and when all three occur in a person - then the "MS" symptoms occur.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby Amir » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:45 am

I have been enthralled with TIMS ever since Emma/Alan put me on this blog. I started reading Dr Sclafani's pages. You may be pleased to note that I am on page 75 out of 415 pages. I find a wealth of information from patient postings. I came across this one which is most interesting - someone who had percutaneous venoplasty and perhaps a relapse:

"When your neck starts to hurt again you re experience problems. Even though I think we missed something else to begin with (I never got fully warm hands and feet) I definitely had good improvements over the first month. Now my neck is starting to hurt again and when it does symptoms get worse. Look you can’t fake improved walking and I had it but when my neck hurts everything gets worse. Restenosis? probably plus if I remember correctly there were issues seeing azygous and you now have better method of viewing. Still think stents are in my future. Waiting with baited breath to be rechecked and retreated. Barbara
Oh listen there is still wax and wane sometimes no pain walked 150ft no hands two days ago. Yesterday neck killed heat bothered me barely waddled touching walls .

THIS SHOWS THAT THE ABILITY TO WALK IS PERHAPS INTIMATELY RELATED TO THE CONDITION OF THE NECK.

1) The most remarkable treatment to improve the condition of the neck is the ATLASBALANCE method. (There are also other comparable methods available) This also massively improves the peripheral blood circulation to an extent that it can be safely said that Raynaud's Syndrome is no longer a syndrome! and perhaps will better address the heat problems that MSers suffer from.
2) The correction of Jaw asymmetries. This improves the rest of the cervical vertebrae on the condition that no high velocity adjustments are carried out.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby CindyCB » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:59 am

Blossom/EJC - thanks for the encouragement, I am glad it'll be of use, I shall start a new thread shortly on the topic. I never really know exactly where to put my posts because I don't have MS (currently...!) but feel my story could be a useful 'cross-over' between certain conditions.

Nigel - many thanks for the suggestion. I have actually already been down this route because I saw the link in it also but thankfully I don't have this condition. I was reviewed with a neurosurgeon who specialises in this area and he performed some extremely detailed MRIs on me but thankfully all was fine. Although you can see in the MRIs just how wonky my jaw is :wink:
Thyroid disease, Vitamin D deficiency, hypermobility, 'ME/CFS', CCSVI (stenosis both sides and assymetric malformed valves), TMJ - No MS but many neuro symptoms.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby euphoniaa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:35 am

Amir wrote:THIS SHOWS THAT THE ABILITY TO WALK IS PERHAPS INTIMATELY RELATED TO THE CONDITION OF THE NECK.

1) The most remarkable treatment to improve the condition of the neck is the ATLASBALANCE method. (There are also other comparable methods available) This also massively improves the peripheral blood circulation to an extent that it can be safely said that Raynaud's Syndrome is no longer a syndrome! and perhaps will better address the heat problems that MSers suffer from.
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Well, Dr. Amir, all I can say about the above statement is, Yikes! :-D

Although Atlas balance could be an issue in some cases, the causes of Raynaud's are many and varied, which makes your broad, sweeping declaration a teensy bit outrageous, in my own obviously non-professional but well-researched opinion. Although you're more than welcome to prove me wrong, of course. :smile:

I have a lot of experience with Raynaud's ever since I started on a beta blocker 30+ years ago, and have posted about it here numerous times. So, in the interest of promoting the most accurate info at TIMS, I'm adding a couple of links to Raynaud's info and lists of other causes for it.

Personally, my medical history includes several of the most commonly listed causes (see lists below) of Raynaud's:
**carpal tunnel in both wrists and elbows (likely due to HNPP)
**overuse of those nerves (by typing/piano -also from HNPP)
**smoking (former smoker)
**Meds – I use a beta blocker and estrogen. My Raynaud's has shown dramatic increases/decreases over the years in direct relation to dosage or when I added a second BP med.

Plus...I don't suffer much from heat, although I have a very definite case of MS.

Here's a list of causes for Raynaud's from Mayo Clinic site:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/raynau ... ION=causes
Raynaud's may be partly an inherited disorder.
Primary vs. secondary Raynaud's
Raynaud's occurs in two main types:
• Primary Raynaud's. This is Raynaud's without an underlying disease or associated medical problem that could provoke vasospasm. Also called Raynaud's disease, it's the most common form of the disorder.
• Secondary Raynaud's. Also called Raynaud's phenomenon, this form is caused by an underlying problem. Although secondary Raynaud's is less common than the primary form, it tends to be a more serious disorder. Signs and symptoms of secondary Raynaud's usually first appear at later ages — around 40 — than they do for people with the primary form of Raynaud's.
Causes of secondary Raynaud's include:
• Scleroderma. Raynaud's phenomenon occurs in the majority of people who have scleroderma — a rare disease that leads to hardening and scarring of the skin.
• Lupus. Raynaud's is also a common problem for people with lupus erythematosus — an autoimmune disease that can affect many parts of your body, including your skin, joints, organs and blood vessels.
• Rheumatoid arthritis. Raynaud's may be an initial sign of rheumatoid arthritis — an inflammatory condition causing pain and stiffness in the joints, often including the hands and feet.
• Sjogren's syndrome. Raynaud's phenomenon can also occur in people who have Sjogren's syndrome — an autoimmune disorder that may accompany scleroderma, lupus or rheumatoid arthritis.
• Diseases of the arteries. Raynaud's phenomenon can be associated with various diseases that affect arteries, such as atherosclerosis, which is the gradual buildup of plaques in blood vessels that feed the heart (coronary arteries), or Buerger's disease, a disorder in which the blood vessels of the hands and feet become inflamed. Primary pulmonary hypertension, a type of high blood pressure that affects the arteries of the lungs, can be linked to Raynaud's.
• Carpal tunnel syndrome. The carpal tunnel is a narrow passageway in your wrist that protects a major nerve to your hand. Carpal tunnel syndrome is a condition in which pressure is put on this nerve, producing numbness and pain in the affected hand. The affected hand may become more susceptible to cold temperatures and episodes of Raynaud's.
• Injury due to overuse. Raynaud's can also be caused by repetitive injuries that damage nerves serving blood vessels in the hands and feet. Some people who type or play the piano vigorously or for long periods of time may be susceptible to Raynaud's. Workers who operate vibrating tools can develop a type of Raynaud's phenomenon called vibration white finger.
• Smoking. Smoking constricts blood vessels and is a potential cause of Raynaud's.
• Injuries. Prior injuries to the hands or feet, such as wrist fracture, surgery or frostbite, can lead to Raynaud's phenomenon.
• Certain medications. Some drugs — including beta blockers, which are used to treat high blood pressure; migraine medications that contain ergotamine; medications containing estrogen; certain chemotherapy agents; and drugs that cause blood vessels to narrow, such as some over-the-counter (OTC) cold medications — have been linked to Raynaud's.
• Chemical exposure. People exposed to vinyl chloride, such as those who work in the plastics industry, may develop an illness similar to scleroderma. Raynaud's can be a part of that illness.
• Other causes. Raynaud's has also been linked to thyroid gland disorders.


And another link and list of causes from the NIH (good pics here):
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health- ... s/raynaud/

What Causes Raynaud's?
Often, the cause of Raynaud's isn't known. This type of Raynaud's is called Raynaud's disease or primary Raynaud's.
Sometimes a disease, condition, or other factor causes Raynaud's. This type of Raynaud's is called Raynaud's phenomenon or secondary Raynaud's.
Causes of Secondary Raynaud's
Many things can cause secondary Raynaud's. Examples include:
• Diseases and conditions that directly damage the arteries or damage the nerves that control the arteries in the hands and feet
• Repetitive actions that damage the nerves that control the arteries in the hands and feet
• Injuries to the hands and feet
• Exposure to certain chemicals
• Medicines that narrow the arteries or affect blood pressure
Diseases and Conditions

Secondary Raynaud's is linked to diseases and conditions that directly damage the arteries. The disorder also is linked to diseases and conditions that damage the nerves that control the arteries in the hands and feet.

Scleroderma (skler-o-DER-ma) and lupus are two examples of conditions that can cause Raynaud's. About 9 out of 10 people who have scleroderma have Raynaud's. About 1 out of 3 people who has lupus has Raynaud's.

Other examples of diseases and conditions that can cause Raynaud's include:
• Rheumatoid (RU-ma-toyd) arthritis
• Atherosclerosis (ath-er-o-skler-O-sis)
• Blood disorders such as cryoglobulinemia (KRI-o-GLOB-yu-li-NE-me-ah) and polycythemia (POL-e-si-THE-me-ah)
• Sjögren's (SHOW-gren's) syndrome, dermatomyositis (DER-ma-to-mi-o-SI-tis), and polymyositis (POL-e-mi-o-SI-tis)
• Buerger's disease
Thyroid problems and pulmonary hypertension also may cause Raynaud's.

Repetitive Actions
Repetitive actions that damage the arteries or the nerves that control the arteries in the hands and feet may lead to Raynaud's. Typing, playing the piano, or doing other similar movements repeatedly over long periods may lead to secondary Raynaud's. Using vibrating tools, such as jackhammers and drills, also may raise your risk of developing Raynaud's.
Hand or Foot Injuries
Injuries to the hands or feet from accidents, frostbite, surgery, or other causes can lead to Raynaud's.
Chemicals
Exposure to certain workplace chemicals can cause a scleroderma-like illness that's linked to Raynaud's. An example of this type of chemical is vinyl chloride, which is used in the plastics industry.
The nicotine in cigarettes also can raise your risk of developing Raynaud's.
Medicines
Certain medicines can cause secondary Raynaud's, including:
• Migraine headache medicines that contain ergotamine. This substance causes the arteries to narrow.
• Certain cancer medicines, such as cisplatin and vinblastine.
• Some over-the-counter cold and allergy medicines and diet aids. Some of these medicines can narrow your arteries.
• Beta blockers. These medicines slow your heart rate and lower your blood pressure.
• Birth control pills. These medicines can affect blood flow.
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby Amir » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:16 am

euphoniaa wrote:
Amir wrote:THIS SHOWS THAT THE ABILITY TO WALK IS PERHAPS INTIMATELY RELATED TO THE CONDITION OF THE NECK.

1) The most remarkable treatment to improve the condition of the neck is the ATLASBALANCE method. (There are also other comparable methods available) This also massively improves the peripheral blood circulation to an extent that it can be safely said that Raynaud's Syndrome is no longer a syndrome! and perhaps will better address the heat problems that MSers suffer from.
[/color]
Well, Dr. Amir, all I can say about the above statement is, Yikes! :-D

Although Atlas balance could be an issue in some cases, the causes of Raynaud's are many and varied,which makes your broad, sweeping declaration a teensy bit outrageous, in my own obviously non-professional but well-researched opinion. Although you're more than welcome to prove me wrong, of course. :smile:

I have a lot of experience with Raynaud's ever since I started on a beta blocker 30+ years ago, and have posted about it here numerous times. So, in the interest of promoting the most accurate info at TIMS, I'm adding a couple of links to Raynaud's info and lists of other causes for it.


Thank you for your input which is most welcome. At first I thought Wow! I shall learn a bit more about Raynaud's but on dissecting all the extensive information you put out all I can see is WHAT CAUSES RAYNAUD'S. Nothing original, Nothing that makes sense or in any way useful - inspite of your extensive efforts.

It is very easy to go for a consultation and tell the doctor that you have a headache and also you have cold hands and feet and he turns around and says (obviously after a few blood tests etc.) "I have found out what is wrong with you. You have Migraine and Raynaud's."

Or 'doctor I play the piano a lot and I also have cold hands and feet' and he turns around and says that you have "Repetitive Strain Injury and Raynaud's phenomenon"

You could repeat this for every item that you have listed above and it is the same nonsense.

While you may have researched it a lot and consider yourself to be an authority on the subject, I have treated it successfully in very many patients.

Your 'Yikes' and your 'outrageousness', your smiles and chuckles are out of place. Your extensive info above is totally useless to the numerous patients who are already largely victims of this nonsense being drivelled out day in and day out for many illnesses from often, Ivy league establishments. Beta blockers are the fashion not a cure with due respect and are used for many illnesses like a magic wand in spite of their serious adverse effects.

Perhaps it may help you to read one of the many testimonials I have received from patients over the years. Find me one like this from your extensive information and knowledge and I might take back what I have said here otherwise I would say 'a little knowledge is dangerous' and so please keep it away from those who seek true help and assistance instead of making them run around in ever widening circles full of sydromes and nonsense.

"I had the Atlasbalance treatment some weeks ago. Prior to that I had been involved in an accident and my neck was injured. The consequence of that was that my breathing had become very shallow and labored. My hands and feet were extremely cold. My appearance was very sallow. I tried all kinds of treatments. I was hospitalised on a few occasions with repeat pneumonia and chest infections. I was losing weight and had a very poor appetite.
I was referred for the correction of the Atlas. After some thought and having heard from a few other patients I went ahead with it. After the correction I was amazed at the outcome. I was sitting in the waiting area when I suddenly realised that I could hear from my right ear which I had never been able to do for as long as I can remember. I next found tingling sensations in my hands and feet and they started warming up. They have stayed warm 5 weeks on and I can see my clubbed nails flattening out with new growth. My breathing has improved amazingly. Over the following 4 weeks my chest has cleared up. My appetite has returned. The hearing on both ears has balanced out. My posture has straightened out completely.
It is the most remarkable treatment in just one short visit.

Patrick McQuade London 26 Feb 2009"

SO I REPEAT:

Raynaud's disease, Raynaud's Syndrome. Raynaud's phenomenon are NO MORE. It is a disturbance to the Cervical Sympathetic Chain brought about by an asymetric Atlas and it is no longer a syndrome nor has it got any link to Piano playing, excessive typing, Sjogren's or many other illnesses that you list.
Last edited by Amir on Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby euphoniaa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:23 am

Hi Dr. Amir. Please go back into your post and fix the "quotes" so MY words aren't jumbled in with others. It's very confusing. It looks like you may be using the wrong brackets, but you can also just hit the "Quote" box on your reply. Or afterwards (like now) you can highlight a section and hit the Quote button at the top of the screen, and add my name above it. It happens often here, but it's pretty frustrating.

Now I'll read your reply. :smile:
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby euphoniaa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:45 am

Amir wrote:
Thank you for your input which is most welcome. At first I thought wow! I shall learn a bit more about Raynaud's but on dissecting all the extensive information you put out all I can see is WHAT CAUSES RAYNAUD'S. Nothing original, Nothing that makes sense or in any way useful - inspite of your extensive efforts.

It is very easy to go for a consultation and tell the doctor that you have a headache and also you have cold hands and feet and he turns around and says (obviously after a few blood tests etc.) "I have found out what is wrong with you. You have Migraine and Raynaud's."

Or 'doctor I play the piano a lot and I also have cold hands and feet' and he turns around and says that you have "Repetitive Strain Injury and Raynaud;s phenomenon"

You could repeat this for every item that you have listed above and it is the same nonsense.

While you may have researched it I have treated it successfully in very many patients.

Your 'Yikes' and your 'outrageousness', your smiles and chuckles are out of place. Your extensive info above is totally useless to the numerous patients who are already largely victims of this nonsense being drivelled out day in and day out for many illnesses from often, ivy league establishments. Beta blockers are the fashion not a cure with due respect and are used for many illnesses like a magic wand in spite of serious adverse effects.

Perhaps it may help for you to read one of the many testimonials I have. Find me one like this from your extensive information and knowledge and I might take back what I have said here otherwise I would say a little knowledge is dangerous and so please keep it away from those who seek true help and assistance in stead of running around in every widening circles full of sydromes and such like.

Ouch. I guess you told me! :smile: I still stand by my suggestion that posters should be cautious about such broad statements such as "Raynaud's Syndrome is no longer a syndrome!" And I did NOT say anything like, "Raynaud's can NOT be cured by Atlas treatment."

Still your defense of your broad, universal assessment seems to be totally anecdotal and from your own immediate patients' experience. I'm glad it works for some and I believe that it probably does. I have my own personal anecdotal experience that verifies much of what I posted as well. Plus, my carpal tunnel is diagnosed from EMGs. And my Raynauds's increased several fold with an additional med. And decreased the same when I dropped the med. Anecdotal, I know, but that's what we're using to prove things here, isn't it? :smile:

But I still contend that that one, single, individual statement you made is outrageous. I was not referring to your entire thread. Geez!
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby EJC » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:27 pm

euphoniaa wrote:But I still contend that that one, single, individual statement you made is outrageous. I was not referring to your entire thread. Geez!


Sometimes when breakthroughs of medicine and treatment occur, their suggestion can initially seem outrageous, almost crackpot even. CCSVI has been battling that label for sometime.

We either choose to be open minded and embrace it and investigate it or continue on the path already walked, which is well trodden and often leads to dead ends.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby NZer1 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:54 pm

Hi Dr A,
I have an interest in your findings, as it is suspected I have Chiari Malformation. And MS and CCSVI!

I would like to know your thoughts on whether atlas adjustment is helping/correcting with either an electrical or a plumbing issue.

And as soon as I have written this I am thinking it could be both. Is there any research that has helped with this question that you know of?

Regards Nigel
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Dr M Amir - Putney Londo

Postby blossom » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:33 pm

hi dr. amir,

thank you again for your interest here.

i have a question. --although i still have most of my own teeth -- what about people that have full dentures? i'm understanding that say for me if i'd try your treatment there should be plenty to attach the appliance to. but, for those that have dentures?
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