AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby EJC » Tue May 14, 2013 12:38 pm

Amir wrote:
I shall search for some brave practitioners in the USA and let you guys know in the next week when I am on holiday.


I've spoken in length with Amir about this during some of the visits we have to Putney.

I find it frustrating that more people are not able to get this help. Seeing the improvements not only with Emma but with so many of the other patients Amir treats. It all seems to boil down to one ugly truth, particularly in North America, fear of litigation.

I hope you do find some willing partners in the states Amir, it can only be a good thing.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby Smith89 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:32 am

Hi,

I do not have MS, but my mum does. For months now I have been having pain in the muscles around my neck and down my spine. Recently when walking i have a little pain at the top of my left leg on the outside aswell as numbness if i sit for a while.

I found this site through googling these symptoms aswell as pain in my jaw, which i feel could be the problem as i grind and clench my jaw many times during the day. Alot of the problems I am experiencing just now remind me of the the problems my Mum used to complain about before she was diagnosed (6/7 years ago) although she does not seem to have jaw/ neck problems at the moment, it is her left leg which is giving her the most pain.

During the day, in work I am sitting at a computer all day which makes my back, neck, left shoulder/ arm painful. When I look in a mirror I can see that my neck looks to be going to an angle. My jaw also looks slightly off centre. I figured this could have been caused by sleeping on my left side all of my life. 2 nights ago I tried to sleep on my back and then on my right side. When trying to sleep in these positions I would feel as if I could not breath as well as I can lying on my left hand side. If I tried to just sleep through the breathing problems, I would feel as if I stopped breathing just before dozing off, which resulted in me panicking slightly and waking up completely. Also when awake and walking around i feel as if I am off balance which has made me very self aware of how I am walking and I feel this is what is leading to the slight pain in my leg, which my mum also experiences alot worse than I do.

Another symptom my Mum and I have in common is in some pictures our faces look dissorientated, as if one side is lower than the other. I am not sure if she notices this, and I have never pointed it out to her as I dont want to make her more self conscious than she is now.

The information about Dr Amir and the jaw re-alignment treatment is the only one that really explains what could be the problem. My jaw has always been small, paticularly the top jaw. When i feel the top right side teeth with my tongue it feels as if they are pointing inwards.

I feel like my mum has giving up slightly and feels there is nothing that can help her, which isn't nice to see.

Do these symtoms sound like they could be eliminated/ reduced with the help of jaw re-alignment?

Thank you for any replies.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby EJC » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:46 am

Where in the world are you Smith89?
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby Smith89 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:44 am

Hi EJC. I am from Glasgow, Scotland.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby EJC » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:02 am

If you get the opportunity to visit London arrange an appointment with Dr Amir for an assessment.

The thing about MS is medicine simply doesn't understand it, there are so many possible symptoms attributed to MS that are also attributed to other conditions such as pernicious anemia, ME, CFS, lymes disease, CCSVI - and the list goes on and on, there's a very real chance that many people are being misdiagnosed with MS and are not receiving treatment for the condition that they actually do have.

Jaw misalignment, Atlas misalignment, trauma or skeletal misalignment is another one to add to this list. From the description above it would be likely that you are predisposed to these problems due to the form of your jaw, at least to a degree that it's worth a visit to Dr Amir to find out.

Amir isn't the answer for everyone, he turns away more people than he treats, but those he can help do have a very good response to his treatment.

You'll not know if it's right for you or not without at least a consultation.
Last edited by EJC on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby EJC » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:03 am

It's worth adding, I think I've met at least one patient of his that travel from your neck of the woods - ask Amir if he can put you in touch if the other person agrees.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby dania » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:23 am

Smith89 wrote:Hi,

I do not have MS, but my mum does. For months now I have been having pain in the muscles around my neck and down my spine. Recently when walking i have a little pain at the top of my left leg on the outside aswell as numbness if i sit for a while.

I found this site through googling these symptoms aswell as pain in my jaw, which i feel could be the problem as i grind and clench my jaw many times during the day. Alot of the problems I am experiencing just now remind me of the the problems my Mum used to complain about before she was diagnosed (6/7 years ago) although she does not seem to have jaw/ neck problems at the moment, it is her left leg which is giving her the most pain.

During the day, in work I am sitting at a computer all day which makes my back, neck, left shoulder/ arm painful. When I look in a mirror I can see that my neck looks to be going to an angle. My jaw also looks slightly off centre. I figured this could have been caused by sleeping on my left side all of my life. 2 nights ago I tried to sleep on my back and then on my right side. When trying to sleep in these positions I would feel as if I could not breath as well as I can lying on my left hand side. If I tried to just sleep through the breathing problems, I would feel as if I stopped breathing just before dozing off, which resulted in me panicking slightly and waking up completely. Also when awake and walking around i feel as if I am off balance which has made me very self aware of how I am walking and I feel this is what is leading to the slight pain in my leg, which my mum also experiences alot worse than I do.

Another symptom my Mum and I have in common is in some pictures our faces look dissorientated, as if one side is lower than the other. I am not sure if she notices this, and I have never pointed it out to her as I dont want to make her more self conscious than she is now.

The information about Dr Amir and the jaw re-alignment treatment is the only one that really explains what could be the problem. My jaw has always been small, paticularly the top jaw. When i feel the top right side teeth with my tongue it feels as if they are pointing inwards.

I feel like my mum has giving up slightly and feels there is nothing that can help her, which isn't nice to see.

Do these symptoms sound like they could be eliminated/ reduced with the help of jaw re-alignment?

Thank you for any replies.

Have your complete spine checked. I clench my jaw, left leg shorter and rotated with numbness and tingling, MS diagnosis and realized after ALL theses years the problem has been caused by a fall on my coccyx. Dr Flanagan is the expert on the spine. Luckily he has a thread here.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby jencor69 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:04 am

Hi Smith89
I have been receiving jaw treatment for a year now and can strongly recommend it. I was diagnosed 23years ago with MS, like you I suffered neck, shoulder and back pain - I gradually lost mobility in my legs but blamed all my symptoms on MS.

I was found to have asymmetries in my teeth, jaw, Atlas and Pelvis. The problem starts at the top with teeth and jaw so I started wearing dental braces to bring them into better alignment. Other asymmetries in the spine are compensating for the jaw misalignment so I actually had one leg longer than the other as a result of my pelvis tilting. This in its turn caused leg pain and patchy numbness.

Only four months of treatment with the brace was enough to allow spontaneous realignment of my Atlas and Hips. The numb patches I had all over my legs went away along with the complete disappearance of a horrible MS symptom called L'Hermitte's sign. I haven't been troubled with it since.

I would echo EJC and Dania's advice - to get a symmetry evaluation, it sounds to me like you are a perfect candidate for TMJ related problems. Try to convince your Mum to get looked at too, I really have not had so much relief from my MS symptoms with anything else. I feel the best I have for years ;) x
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby Smith89 » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:19 am

I am going to see my gp within the next week so i'm hoping that he will be able to tell me if the Atlas vertebrae is definitely out of place. Thanks for the quick replies.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby dania » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:26 am

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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby dania » Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:56 am

A conventional dentist who treats teeth usually pays no heed to the misalignment of the pelvis, while the manual therapist or orthopedist remains focused on the pelvis and does not pay attention to dental or mandibular misalignments. As long as the musculoskeletal system is not viewed and treated in its totality, long-lasting solutions for patients will not be found.

Experience has shown that when the Atlas – and if necessary the jaw – is realigned, the pelvis realigns as a result, this time permanently.

Once the primary cause is removed, manual techniques can be applied to the pelvis to provide support and to allow the body to return more quickly to a balanced position

http://www.atlantotec.com/en/disorders/ ... -obliquity
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby Bubs » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:37 pm

Not that's there's any harm in seeing your GP, but from experience I would guess he wouldn't know how to check for an atlas mis-alignment or have a clue how it would be linked to your symptoms. The best way to is via a X-Ray by an upper-cervical doctor and the two people in the UK who are best qualified that I am aware of are, Dr Heidi Grant (London) and Iain Smith (Newport, Shropshire) who Heidi trained how to do the upper cervical X-Rays.

To get a rough idea yourself lay down on a flat surface like a bench or even the top of the stairs with your feet dangling over the edge. Relax your legs and get someone to cup their hands round the bottom of your feet to see if they are the same length, i.e. see if the ankle touch. Another test is to stand up straight and look in the mirror to see if one shoulder is higher than the other.

No one can give you a concrete answer on who the best person to see is, as everybody is different. Think back to your medical history to determine if any event may have caused this mis-alignment, such as a car accident, surgery, a fall or blow to the head that may have caused whiplash or jaw mis-alingment.

Treating TMJ may or may not be the answer, just keep doing your research and continue to ask questions to try and work out the best approach for you.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby EJC » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:55 pm

dania wrote:A conventional dentist who treats teeth usually pays no heed to the misalignment of the pelvis, while the manual therapist or orthopedist remains focused on the pelvis and does not pay attention to dental or mandibular misalignments. As long as the musculoskeletal system is not viewed and treated in its totality, long-lasting solutions for patients will not be found.

Experience has shown that when the Atlas – and if necessary the jaw – is realigned, the pelvis realigns as a result, this time permanently.

Once the primary cause is removed, manual techniques can be applied to the pelvis to provide support and to allow the body to return more quickly to a balanced position

http://www.atlantotec.com/en/disorders/ ... -obliquity


dania has summarised the whole thing here very well.

Current medical thinking breaks down many component parts of the anatomy down into specialists fields. Dentists look at teeth, Chiro's look at skeletal problems, chiropodists look at feet etc etc.

Once you start looking at the body or particularly the entire skeletal structure for head to toe as a single unit that needs to be balanced and aligned you often find the problems. It's the interaction of the skeletal structure as a whole that's important not just component parts of it. However, one component part not being where it should be can cause disarray in seemingly divorced areas of the body.

The thing is though, unless you understand the entire structure and the interactions between each part of the structure how could you determine what's correct and what isn't.
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby Music » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:30 pm

Very interesting dania. Thank you for these!
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Re: AtlasBalance (jaw misalignment) Treatment - EJC

Postby EJC » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:06 am

It's been a while since I posted an update to this thread, the negativity from a minorty can get irritating and a little off putting. Anyhow I was prompted to post today as we visited Dr Amir in Putney and a new patient was with him (all the way from Gibraltar) as a direct result of reading about his treatments on TiMS. It was nice to meet you today.

So how is Emma in the years since she started seeing Dr Amir?

Well the symptoms that took us to see Amir originally are all but eradicated, mainly debilitating nerve pain down the left hand side of Emma's body, focusing in the hand/wrist and foot/ankle. Occasionally Emma gets a "twinge" in these areas, which she's come to understand as a sign that something needs adjusting with her brace/teeth.

Emma currently has what people would recognise as traditional fixed upper and lower braces.

Fatigue has also remained reduced since treatment started with Dr Amir. All in all Emma is finding life more tolerable as a direct result of this treatment.

So has Dr Amirs treatment helped Emma's MS? This is where a simple wording makes a world of difference. If I'm ever asked if Dr Amir's treatment is curing or treating Emma's MS the answer has to be no. I'd prefer to explain it as follows.

Emma clearly had underlying dental/jaw issues or a TMJ disorder. Dr Amir has treated this problem and as a result of that treatment a specific group of symptoms have been relieved/eradicated. The problem you have once you have a diagnosis of MS is the medical fraternity are all to willing to chalk any symptom up to "MS" without really looking any further. So Dr Amirs treatment has relieved symptoms that were incorrectly being attributed to "MS".

Is Emma still struggling with anything else?

In a word Yes, walking and leg control/balance is a problem that Dr Amir can't get to grips with. He's very open about this. In fact it's why we continue to see him. It's refreshing to come across someone who is open minded to new ideas, treatment and feedback from his patients. He's willing to look at all possible options no matter how obscure. Some people find this off putting, personally I feel it's how modern medicine should behave towards conditions that are misunderstood.

Eyesight is still and issue. The muscles controlling Emma's left eye in particular struggle to work together meaning her left eye "wanders" and created double vision issues. This has been diagnosed variously as "One and Half syndrome" and possible "Internuclear Opthalmoplegia" neither of which are understood any more then MS.

What we have found is if Emma's head and neck muscles are massaged, prompting blood flow and increased oxygenation, her eyesight improves. but this is transient. This ties in with the instant eyesight improvement Emma experienced when she had CCSVI in Scotland some year back. Improve blood flow, increase oxygenation = improved eyesight. We're currently experimenting with an EMS device bought from Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Med-Fit-Maxi-Stim-Value-Muscle-Stimulator/dp/B00B7F1JFW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1413651863&sr=8-5&keywords=ems to see if we can replicate "massage" electrically. Initial responses are interesting with regard to blood flow stimulation locally. (note this is not a TENS machine - it is something different).

Emma has Physio once a fortnight and Acupuncture once a fortnight to keep as much working as possible. We discuss all these treatments with Dr Amir and also discuss Dr Amirs treatment with the the other specialists. It can only broaden your mind.

Finally the other thing Emma is using is Cannabis Oil (aka Hemp Oil - aka Rick Simpson Oil). She takes a small amount of this at night which stops spasticity and allows her to get a full nights sleep. If you've never come across this before - Google it, it makes interesting reading and more importantly it works. I'm a convert as I admit to previously associating cannabis with dope heads and little else. It's medical qualities are far reaching and very interesting indeed, particularly in relation to cancer
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