ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby dania » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:51 pm

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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby PointsNorth » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:19 pm

Wow, good catch, Dania. I plan to call early next week . . . . Surely they must've heard about CCSVI/MS?!

Thanks, PN
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby Cece » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:05 pm

That's brilliant. Great find.
The Clarimedix technology is a light-based medical device in the form of a flexible patch that is applied to the skin over the carotid artery. Using a proprietary wavelength and duration of light developed by Clarimedix, the device emits light through the skin and tissue down to the carotid artery. It then triggers targeted, localized and controllable production of nitric oxide, a well-known vasodilator and neurotransmitter capable of increasing blood flow, reducing inflammation and triggering gene expression changes in the brain.

Two thoughts: they could use the device to target the jugulars on pwMS who have insufficient flow despite CCSVI treatment; or they could use it on the carotid artery in pwMS, to increase blood flow to the brain in the same way as is being done for people with Alzheimer's.

Perhaps it would be of use in the healthy population too, or in older age?
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby dania » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:56 am

Cannot take the credit for the find. I only passed it along. And, I sent an email to the company asking if it could possibility help with dilating my collaterals as my jugulars as 100% blocked with scarring. Also said there are other in the same situation. Hopefully, they will see it as another potential for revenue which I assume will spur them into looking into the matter.
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby Cece » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:34 am

I wonder too how focused is it? If it is aiming at the carotid artery, might it dilate whatever blood vessels are in the area as well? There is a place in the jugular where the carotid can compress the jugular, so they are right next to each other. Perhaps the results they are seeing in Alzheimer's patients are not just from dilatation of the carotid but also from dilatation of the jugulars, if it is at all indiscriminate in its focus.

If you hear back from the company, please share it here.

Checking the article again, the device has completed animal studies but has not yet been tested in humans.

I like that it's a nonpharmaceutical solutions.

I was looking for more information on this but found this instead: a patent on "VISIBLE LIGHT MODULATION OF MITOCHONDRIAL FUNCTION IN HYPOXIA AND DISEASE" by the same company, Clarimedix. "The present invention provides methods of using electromagnetic radiation in the visible portion of the spectrum to modulate mitochondrial function in the treatment of various conditions, including Alzheimer's disease, other dementias, hypoxia and diabetic peripheral neuropathy, and sensory disorders of the extremities." So that's another idea.
Last edited by Cece on Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby CureOrBust » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:18 pm

I like the sound of it, but personally believe it sounds "too good". While reading it all I could hear were people selling pyramids to raise the intensity of your aura...

Now it might work, but the fact they have not included any numbers on effectiveness is very suspicious to me. It would be the simplest thing to have tested with ultrasound the average increase in blood-flow induced by the device, but they have not. When you ring them, ask them on this, and the range of values they got in BLINDED subjects. I personally think a double blind trial of this device would place it in the same category as those bracelets providing increased balance. :YMDEVIL:
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby jackD » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:26 pm

I suggest you chew on a pine tree.

jackD


Phytomedicine.

2010 Sep;17(11):835-9. Epub 2010 Jun 25.

Improvement of signs and symptoms of chronic venous insufficiency and microangiopathy with Pycnogenol: a prospective, controlled study.

Cesarone MR, Belcaro G, Rohdewald P, Pellegrini L, Ledda A, Vinciguerra G, Ricci A, Ippolito E, Fano F, Dugall M, Cacchio M, Di Renzo A, Hosoi M, Stuard S, Corsi M.

SourceDepartment of Biomedical Sciences, G D'Annunzio, Chieti-Pescara University, Faculty of Motory Sciences, L'Aquila University, Italy.

Abstract
The aim of this study was to evaluate the clinical efficacy of standardized French maritime pine bark extract Pycnogenol in patients with severe chronic venous insufficiency (CVI). 98 subjects with symptomatic CVI and edema were randomly assigned to one group treated with 150 mg Pycnogenol a day only, another group with stockings only and a third group with both Pycnogenol and elastic stockings. The average ambulatory venous pressure (AVP) at inclusion was 58+/-7 mm Hg (range 48-60 mm Hg) with a refilling time (RT)<12 s (average 7+/-2 s). The duration of the disease was on average 6.0+/-3.1 years. There were no differences in AVP or RT among the 3 groups at inclusion and microcirculatory and clinical evaluations were comparable. After 8 weeks treatment there was a significant decrease of rate of ankle swelling, resting flux, transcutaneous pO(2) and clinical symptom scores in all groups with significantly better results for the combination treatment.

Pycnogenol alone was more effective than compression alone for all parameters (p<0.05). No side-effects were observed; compliance and tolerability were very good.

This study corroborates a significant clinical role for Pycnogenol in the management, treatment and control of CVI also in combination with compression.

Copyright 2010 Elsevier GmbH. All rights reserved.

PMID:20579863[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
.
.
Angiology. 2006 Oct-Nov;57(5):569-76.

Rapid relief of signs/symptoms in chronic venous microangiopathy with pycnogenol: a prospective, controlled study.

Cesarone MR, Belcaro G, Rohdewald P, Pellegrini L, Ledda A, Vinciguerra G, Ricci A, Gizzi G, Ippolito E, Fano F, Dugall M, Acerbi G, Cacchio M, Di Renzo A, Hosoi M, Stuard S, Corsi M.

SourceIrvine2 Vascular Lab and Physiology, Department of Biomedical Sciences, G 'Annunzio, Chieti-Pescara University, San Valentino Vascular Screening Project, Faculty of Motory Sciences, L'Aquila University, Italy.

Erratum in
Angiology. 2008 Jun-Jul;59(3):385.

Abstract
The aim of this study was to investigate the clinical efficacy of oral Pycnogenol (Horphag Research Ltd, UK) in patients with severe chronic venous insufficiency. Patients with severe venous hypertension (chronic venous insufficiency, ankle swelling) and history of venous ulcerations were treated with Pycnogenol. Patients received oral Pycnogenol (50 mg capsules, 3 times daily for a total of 150 mg daily) for 8 weeks. A group of 21 patients was included in the treatment group and 18 equivalent patients were observed as controls (no treatment during the observation period). All 21 patients (age 53 years; range, 42-60 years; M:F=11:10) in the treatment group completed the 8-week study. Also the 18 controls completed the follow-up period. There were no drop-outs. The average ambulatory venous pressure was 59.3 (SD 7.2; range 50-68) with a refilling time shorter than 10 seconds (average 7.6; SD 3). There were no differences in ambulatory venous pressure or refilling time between the treatment and control patients. The duration of the disease-from the first signs/symptoms-was on average 5.7 years (SD 2.1).

At 4 and 8 weeks, in all Pycnogenol-treated subjects, microcirculatory and clinical evaluations indicated a progressive decrease in skin flux, indicating an improvement in the level of microangiopathy; a significant decrease in capillary filtration; a significant improvement in the symptomatic score; and a reduction in edema.

There were no visible effects in controls.

In conclusion, this study confirms the fast clinical efficacy of Pycnogenol in patients with chronic venous insufficiency and venous microangiopathy. The study indicates the significant clinical role of Pycnogenol in the management, treatment and control of this common clinical problem. The treatment may be also useful to prevent ulcerations by controlling the level of venous microangiopathy.PMID:17067979[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby Cece » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:41 pm

well that's one way to dispose of the Christmas tree!
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby CureOrBust » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:15 pm

jackD wrote:I suggest you chew on a pine tree.
=)) Ha.. I thought that I was being told where to go with a seasonal twist at first.

Now that I have read the studies, I think it should of been posted on another topic (ie a little off topic compared to the medical device being discussed :? ). The one thing that will stop me from rushing out and buying Pycnogenol (apart from the fact I have tried it before) is that the articles seem to implicate "microangiopathy", where as CCSVI is more commonly associated with valves and the larger veins (at this stage)

3rd Quote wrote:The treatment may be also useful to prevent ulcerations by controlling the level of venous microangiopathy
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby dania » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:37 am

This is the response I just received from the company.

Hi Jan – thank you for emailing us. It’s hard to say whether our technology would work in an application like what you describe. It sounds like flow has been greatly reduced from structural changes although the fact that Viagra seems to have helped could be suggestive that it might.

Keep an eye on our website at www.clarimedix.com for updates on our progress. We hope 2012 moves faster than 2011 has to this point.

Best,
john
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby jackD » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:25 am

Just add some Pomegranate juice PLUS some pomegrante supplement extract to the pycnogenol (Pine bark extract) 100 mg twice a day and solve the total problem.

jackD

Clin Nutr. 2004 Jun;23(3):423-33.

Pomegranate juice consumption for 3 years by patients with carotid artery stenosis reduces common carotid intima-media thickness, blood pressure and LDL oxidation.

Aviram M, Rosenblat M, Gaitini D, Nitecki S, Hoffman A, Dornfeld L, Volkova N, Presser D, Attias J, Liker H, Hayek T.

SourceThe Lipid Research Laboratory, Rappaport Family Institute for Research in the Medical Sciences, Rambam Medical Center, Haifa 31096, Israel. aviram@tx.technion.ac.il

Erratum in
Clin Nutr. 2008 Aug;27(4):671.
Abstract
Dietary supplementation with polyphenolic antioxidants to animals was shown to be associated with inhibition of LDL oxidation and macrophage foam cell formation, and attenuation of atherosclerosis development. We investigated the effects of pomegranate juice (PJ, which contains potent tannins and anthocyanins) consumption by atherosclerotic patients with carotid artery stenosis (CAS) on the progression of carotid lesions and changes in oxidative stress and blood pressure. Ten patients were supplemented with PJ for 1 year and five of them continued for up to 3 years. Blood samples were collected before treatment and during PJ consumption. In the control group that did not consume PJ, common carotid intima-media thickness (IMT) increased by 9% during 1 year, whereas, PJ consumption resulted in a significant IMT reduction, by up to 30%, after 1 year. The patients' serum paraoxonase 1 (PON 1) activity was increased by 83%, whereas serum LDL basal oxidative state and LDL susceptibility to copper ion-induced oxidation were both significantly reduced, by 90% and 59%, respectively, after 12 months of PJ consumption, compared to values obtained before PJ consumption. Furthermore, serum levels of antibodies against oxidized LDL were decreased by 19%, and in parallel serum total antioxidant status (TAS) was increased by 130% after 1 year of PJ consumption. Systolic blood pressure was reduced after 1 year of PJ consumption by 12% [corrected] and was not further reduced along 3 years of PJ consumption. For all studied parameters, the maximal effects were observed after 1 year of PJ consumption. Further consumption of PJ, for up to 3 years, had no additional beneficial effects on IMT and serum PON1 activity, whereas serum lipid peroxidation was further reduced by up to 16% after 3 years of PJ consumption. The results of the present study thus suggest that PJ consumption by patients with CAS decreases carotid IMT and systolic blood pressure and these effects could be related to the potent antioxidant characteristics of PJ polyphenols.

PMID:15158307[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


P.S.
The pine bark stuff will also make you smarter. That part about being "normal" may present a problem.

Panminerva Med. 2011 Sep;53(3 Suppl 1):75-82.

Pycnogenol® supplementation improves cognitive function, attention and mental performance in students.

Luzzi R, Belcaro G, Zulli C, Cesarone MR, Cornelli U, Dugall M, Hosoi M, Feragalli B.

SourceIrvine3 Labs, Department of Biomedical Sciences Chieti - Pescara University, Pescara, Italy - cardres@abol.it.

Abstract
AIM: This study compared the effects of supplementation with Pycnogenol® on cognitive function, attention and mental performance in students with an 8 week, evaluation study. Pycnogenol® was used in healthy students; the supplement was used with the aim of enhancing "normal" mental performances.

METHODS: Attention, memory, evaluation of executive functions were included and students were also evaluated - in the 8-week study - according to results of the university tests. Fifty-three students (range 18-27 years) were included and Pycnogenol® was administered for 8 weeks. A group of equivalent students were followed up as a control group.

RESULTS: In the 8-week study Pycnogenol® supplementation improved sustained attention, memory, executive functions and mood ratings in the students. The improvement was statistically significant. The actual performance on real tests was measured in students undergoing university examinations. The controls failed 9 tests out a total of 84 (10.71%). In the Pycnogenol® group the students failed 7 tests out of 112 (6.25%) with a difference of 4.46% of failures in the Pycnogenol® group that performed, statistically, generally better. The average test score measured by the marks obtained was 23.81 (1.1) in controls vs. 26.1(1.3) (P<0.024) in the Pycnogenol® group (+2.29 equivalent to 7.6%).

CONCLUSION: This study indicates a role for Pycnogenol® to improve cognitive function in normal students.PMID:22108481[PubMed - in process]
Last edited by jackD on Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Does this therapy dilate vein valves ???

Postby MarkW » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:00 am

Please remember that Prof Zamboni says the main problems are vein valves, webs and septums. Treatments by leading practitioners focus on vein valves, I do not understand this therapy to be relevant to CCSVI syndrome.
MarkW
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 11 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby munchkin » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:25 am

The patch might be relevant for those of us who have had our veins severely damaged during ballooning. We don't have many options and this forum is about CCSVI which we undertook so this is an appropriate forum for us to discuss the bad results and possible ways to deal with occluded jugulars. Sorry if you are replying to the post regarding pinebark.
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Re: Does this therapy dilate vein valves ???

Postby dania » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:26 am

MarkW wrote:Please remember that Prof Zamboni says the main problems are vein valves, webs and septums. Treatments by leading practitioners focus on vein valves, I do not understand this therapy to be relevant to CCSVI syndrome.
MarkW

Very relelant. For those who have had angioplasty, restenosed and now have blocked veins due to scarring etc and further angioplasty is no longer an option, this is a way to keep the collateral veins more open. I tried Cialis and it did make me much stronger. And being a pharmacist you would know Viagra and Cialis are vasodilators.
ANYTHING that can help patients with CCSVI is a plus.
If your treatment had not worked for you, I suspect you would still be searching for something to help. And now that we know the problem is restricted blood flow anything that helps it along should be welcomed.
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Re: ANOTHER WAY TO DILATE VEINS?

Postby Cece » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:01 pm

Relevant because, even having had the procedure, a person might not have optimal blood flow. The device has only been tested on animals so far, and is conceptualized as a treatment for Alzheimer's, so I don't know when we'd get it for the CCSVI population.
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