Nature of Things

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: Nature of Things

Postby bruce123 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:43 pm

I enjoyed the show. It was a bit out-of-date but it was for the general public, not for us on TIMS.

I noticed that they changed the name of the documentary from the more sensational title that many of here on TIMS complained about a few months ago.

I think the best quote was another great observation from Dr. Murray. He went on and on about what is not known about CCSVI becuse of lack of research and finished by saying that we KNOW that CCSVI is not the cause of MS. The man must be a genius to be able to know something like that without research.

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Re: Nature of Things

Postby 1eye » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:58 pm

the biggest shock was seeing Dr. Zamboni. I did not know he was also disabled (sorry i did not catch what his condition is). it was great to see his passion (the same passion i saw with a certain person in Brooklyn). it was very hard to watch him talk about how he felt when the press proclaimed him as a hoax. the doc that assisted him and performed the actual operations was also very interesting.


The "hoax" neurologist was the same one you saw on TV (not for the first time) and I suspect, the same one not named in today's syndicated newspaper story, calling the ThisIsMS CCSVI forum and the faceliterati discussing CCSVI, a "cult". One can see why he might not want to be named.

Always the same story... it must be true. Sounds very scientific, anyway. After all, the guy's a neurologist. He probably speaks for the whole profession.
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby erinc14 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:12 am

i was reading an article on the net yesterday and it mentioned a doctor in ottawa who called this "mass hysteria". it didn't say who but i suspect it's freedman.

and if they wanted canadian connections they could have interviewed anyone who spoke in parliament .
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby jackiejay » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:03 am

they did speak to Dr. Sandy McDonald , who incidently has spoken in Parliament.
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby erinc14 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:21 am

jackiejay wrote:they did speak to Dr. Sandy McDonald , who incidently has spoken in Parliament.



yes but only once and for a short time . yet they kept coming back to jock murray .
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby jackiejay » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:18 am

I know....very discouraging to have him have so much airtime.
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby Ali888 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:21 am

Personally, the more Dr Murray and Dr. T. spoke, the worse they sounded. I think thay expose to the average viewer just what we are up against.
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby 1eye » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:39 am

I for one am not discouraged, downhearted, or desperate. I will not speculate who exactly said what except those I saw in the show, but there are those whose stance is fairly well known, including the doctors in the piece. They had their say, and their message was conveyed quite well by the piece. In Hansard you can find the statements and questions of all the politicians who have spoken. Pay some attention to those who spoke against the bills in the second reading discussions, but not too much, because the Conservatives have a majority and the Health Minister, while sympathetic, does not want to be hurried. They have no excessive impetus to act. Progress is happening, especially in Saskatchewan, where the trials have a good chance to settle some of our uncertainty. If there is more that can be done for us in Canada, those in Saskatchewan will be contributing a lot towards that goal, and I am grateful to them. I do think we are pioneers to some extent. ":If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room."
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby Billmeik » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:38 pm

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Re: Nature of Things

Postby Billmeik » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:20 pm

Out of date.

So the original Doepp study was 0%. He put out a new paper in 2011 what did it say?
So the original zivadinof study found 56% what a bout the 80% in his 2011 study?
o
I think we should demand that David does an addendum to upgrade the facts. Mentioning the autopsy paper would help too. Maybe Singers?
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby MrSuccess » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:23 pm

..... MrSuccess finds stem cell research as interesting as anyone. It appears to hold great promise and needs full funding. However ..... CCSVI is here and now . And the cost is affordable ..... The guy on these video's casting doubt on the value of the Liberation treatment ..... should be investigated for any ties or links to MS research ....that line his pockets.

Always , always .... look for the 'Truth behind the Lie' ..... AND ..... 'The Lie behind the Truth'.


Sadly , that's the real world that we live in ...... :twisted:



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Re: Nature of Things

Postby Billmeik » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:35 pm

onclusions: Our ECCS data contradict the postulated 100% prevalence of CCSVI criteria in MS. MRV seems more sensitive to detect IJV narrowing compared to ECCS. A measurable hemodynamic effect only exists in vessel narrowings >80%. Our combined data argue against a causal relationship of venous narrowing and MS, favoring the rejection of the CCSVI hypothesis.

so doepp is still a negative at 80%

thats ziv's 80
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2377/11/128/abstract
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby MrSuccess » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:18 pm

..... more thoughts on that guy openly questioning CCSVI diverting $ funding away from stem cell research ...... playing the guilt card on pwMS.... :twisted:

..... stem cell research is - in fact - being funded by the great - MANY - diseases being treated by all the wonderful medical reseachers. Cancer reearch ... probably the number one investigator of stem cell applications. And many other medical fields.

One great discovery in one field ..... may help others. As Professor Zamboni's team mate , said .... CCSVI might be useable in the treatment of other Neuro problems.

For example : Viagra was invented for hair loss .... but it was discovered to help men get a 'Freedman'. :wink: :peace:


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Re: Nature of Things

Postby erinc14 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:09 am

"it was discovered to help men get a 'Freedman'. "

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Re: Nature of Things

Postby Lyon » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:25 am

MrSuccess wrote: For example : Viagra was invented for hair loss .... but it was discovered to help men get a 'Freedman'. :wink: :peace:
Now what could have given most everyone the impression that ccsvi and its followers is not to be taken seriously?
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