Nature of Things

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

Re: Nature of Things

Postby 1eye » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:24 pm

Got a reply to my letter to Dr. Suzuki. From another member of his staff. Interesting that she tells me it was produced in Saskatchewan.
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby Billmeik » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:56 pm

It is a strange day when I must write a piece accusing David Suzuki of shoddy scholarship, but such is the case when looking at the recent 'Nature of Things' that looked at CCSVI. What was presented was hopelessly out of date. In a field that is only 3 years old to look only at research that's a year old or more is to ignore 1/3 of the data.
For example he mentions the famous study by Robert Zivandof in Buffalo where he found ccsvi in 56% of people with MS, but he doesn't mention Dr. Zivandof's recent study where he found ccsvi in 80% of MS patients.
The tragedy of the nature of things episode is that you missed an important and real story.
Zamboni found ccsvi(messed up veins at the output of the brain) in 100% of the ms patients he looked at in his first paper. Although we now have dozens of replications of his work with results from 0 to 90%,and thousands of ms patients have been liberated, has there been another 100% replication of zamboni's first work?
Why yes, by Dr Fox a Neurologist at the Cleveland Institute. He did autopsies on 15 people. 7 people with ms and 8 controls. He found venous abnormalities in 100% of the people with ms, and 0% of those who didn't.
The light is being focused on stenosis, the narrowing of the veins that Zamboni said we would find. Fox found none of this just a bunch of intraluminal and truncular defects in the ms patients.All the MS patients. So 2012 is the year that we wait to see if Fox's numbers will hold up in a larger study, but right now there is a clarity: Much of the conflict in the medical community has been over definitions, but the message is clear:If you have MS you have problems in your veins.These may not show up on a regular ultrasound or mri because they are problems inside the vein. We're just waiting for more replication now but it's looking like fact.
That's a big story.
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby KateCW » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:35 pm

I will again state that this was NOT meant to be a cutting edge, up to the minute piece on CCSVI, it was about how social media and the Internet have impacted how patients access and share information and how doctor patient relationships have changed, patients taking matters into their own hands etc. with that as the stated title of the piece they did a good job.
Kathy, 49 with PPMS,full time scooter.
Married to a wonderful man, mother to a darling 9 yr old boy
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby Cece » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:33 pm

Billmeik wrote: The light is being focused on stenosis, the narrowing of the veins that Zamboni said we would find. Fox found none of this just a bunch of intraluminal and truncular defects in the ms patients.All the MS patients. So 2012 is the year that we wait to see if Fox's numbers will hold up in a larger study, but right now there is a clarity: Much of the conflict in the medical community has been over definitions, but the message is clear:If you have MS you have problems in your veins.These may not show up on a regular ultrasound or mri because they are problems inside the vein. We're just waiting for more replication now but it's looking like fact.
That's a big story.

Agreed!

http://registration.akm.ch/einsicht.php ... KEN_ID=900

Technically it was not 100% abnormalities in the MS patients and none in the controls. One control had an intraluminal abnormality and two MS patients did not.
A variety of vein abnormalities were identified. The incidence of vein wall stenoses was similar in MS and controls: eight stenoses in 4 of 7 MS patients and five in 3 of 6 controls. Marked valvular and other intraluminal abnormalities with potential hemodynamic consequences were identified in 5 of 7 MS patients (7 abnormalities) and in 1 of 6 controls (1 abnormality).
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby Billmeik » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:59 pm

Im relying on my sketchy ms brain but doesn't he say he found no stenosis in the new video?
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Re: Nature of Things

Postby 1eye » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:12 am

It seems this posthumous work is acceptable, but the study is smaller even than Zamboni's. Perhaps if all pwMS would donate their bodies, science would be able to sort out the stats.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
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'MS' is over - if you want it
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