This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

http://www.vrh2.com/pics/putnam.pdf

a librarian friend of mine scanned it. Don't tell anyone.

Hi guys this is my first post so hello! I'm currently going throughout the rigmarole of diagnosis (blurgh!!)

Had a quick read through this thread, as this topic is very interesting, can't see anyone has addressed this point I'm going to raise and please don't anyone get upset I'm not dismissing this theory as im obviously no expert.

Don't get too down hearted with a study because for me that really doesn't surprise me that the study shows that CCVI doesn't 'Cause' MS. Cause and effect relationships are very hard to establish for one and secondly CCVI may easily be a result of MS as inflammation (which as you know is what MS is) causes sticky blood and i guess this could then cause the CCVI? (again this is just me thinking out loud) it's natural to want to find the most effective cures but healthy scepticism is definitely needed and I'm sure this is why some of your neuros seem resistant to this idea.

Thoughts, views and any pointers to more research on this are much appreiciated

Geniuses! These guys are amazing! What a fucking waste of
Time and money!
Excuse me while I go eat some cheese and leave my shit all over the floor.

www.thegreekfromdetroit.com

Welcome to the forum.
What frustrates me is when researchers get caught up on the cause-and-effect question, but what matters more is if treating people for CCSVI will help.

We've heard that the jugular veins do not show signs of inflammation damage, I can't remember if there is anything in the medical literature stating that. Often what is seen is intraluminal congenital abnormalities within the veins, meaning that it is not the vein itself that is stenosed but something within the vein such as a bad valve is blocking the flow, and that appears to have formed before birth, which would predate the MS. Valves with long fixed leaflets, malformed. Hypoplastic veins, never grew up.

As for research, start with google scholar, and type in CCSVI! There's a lot of positive and negative and imaging studies and opinion pieces in there, but there aren't yet any randomized controlled trials. Two such trials are underway (Dr. Siskin's in Albany and Dr. Zamboni's in Italy). There appears to be evidence of an association between CCSVI and MS.

I particularly like Dr. Fox's autopsy research, after all the confusion with the imaging studies, since intraluminal abnormalities in veins have turned out to be difficult to image from outside of the vein. So the autopsy research can look at real veins and whether these abnormalities were really there or not. (Spoiler alert: they were really there.)
http://registration.akm.ch/einsicht.php ... KEN_ID=900

Welcome Kloklo86. I agree with Cece's comment. Mice do not get MS so CCSVI syndrome will not cause MS in mice. Lots of MS research falls into such traps.
MarkW

_________________
Mark Walker - Oxfordshire, England. Registered Pharmacist (UK). 10 years of study around MS.
Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html

And here is new research on extracranial drainage of pigs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23348984


To correctly do animal research, the dominant drainage would need to be ligated. In us, that is the internal jugular veins. In pigs, it is the ventral vertebral venous plexus. In mice, it is the retroglenoid vein, if Dr. Sclafani's information is as correct as it appears.

This pig research came from Detroit Wayne University, same as Dr. Haacke. Hey! Dr. Haacke is even listed last among the authors. The obvious next step is to ligate pig VVVPs and see what happens neurologically.

thanks for that, Cece! Great news from a great researcher-
cheer

_________________
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
dual stents placed 5/09
CCSVI in MS

Yes, a great find.

While reading the above, it made me think of "Putnams dogs". Do dogs have a more similar flow pattern to humans?

Start on page 33 of the following http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/availa ... 012805.pdf
Some heavy reading on the extracranial venous drainage of dogs.