More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby scorpions » Fri May 04, 2012 1:24 pm

I am not sure if this study has been posted yet:

Specifically, what he and his colleagues found was that, of 206 patients with some form of MS, only eight met Zamboni's criteria for CCSVI, whereas these criteria were met by five of 59 patients with other neurological diseases, including stroke.




http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCove ... ting/32376
User avatar
scorpions
Family Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:40 am

Advertisement

Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby Cece » Fri May 04, 2012 1:46 pm

The abstract is over in this thread:
www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-cerebros ... ml#p190788
Cece
Family Elder
 
Posts: 8989
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:00 pm

Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby David1949 » Fri May 04, 2012 4:49 pm

They ran the tests with ultrasound and MRI. I don't know about the MRI but the ultrasound is nearly useless in detecting CCSVI. In my own case the ultrasound technician said my veins were open and the blood was flowing. The venogram revealed an entirely different picture- left jugular vein 20mm in dia but narrowed to only 3 in the valve. The right jugular vein was 3 mm in dia.
David1949
Family Elder
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby Billmeik » Fri May 04, 2012 5:13 pm

I have found that when I look at the sunset with my eyes closed I don't see it. Therefore there is no sunset, it doesn't exist.


the nature of the intraluminal webs that fox reported finding in dead MS patients Is that they don't show up well with standard imaging and training. Simks saw a flash on my ultrasound and the venography confirmed it.
User avatar
Billmeik
Family Elder
 
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby 1eye » Fri May 04, 2012 9:39 pm

I don't know about the MRI but the ultrasound is nearly useless in detecting CCSVI
I don't either so I'll keep mum till I do. I have read some good results using Doppler US. At the lab in Barrie they used it. It is useful for follow-ups, after the procedure has already been done. It is a screening tool, not a final tool to use in diagnosis, but more to direct treatment, which uses something better. Something like how Ultrasound Echo-cardiograms are used before heart angioplasty is attempted. We patients cannot tell doctors which tools to use but we can tell what research is going to be of no use to us. The patient has already had the heart attack, and its severity is tested by enzyme analysis. The Echo is the last step before the angio (at least it was in my case). Smoke 'em if you got 'em, but my mind is clear.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
CCSVI procedure Albany Aug 2010
'MS' is over - if you want it
Patients sans/without patience
User avatar
1eye
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2874
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:00 pm
Location: Kanata, Ontario, Canada

Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby tiltawhirl » Fri May 04, 2012 10:16 pm

David1949 wrote:They ran the tests with ultrasound and MRI. I don't know about the MRI but the ultrasound is nearly useless in detecting CCSVI. In my own case the ultrasound technician said my veins were open and the blood was flowing. The venogram revealed an entirely different picture- left jugular vein 20mm in dia but narrowed to only 3 in the valve. The right jugular vein was 3 mm in dia.


My ultrasound in Barrie showed 3 of 5 criteria for CCSVI. The ultrasound in NYC showed 4 of 5 criteria. So certainly not an exact or ideal method, but more a guiding tool for further investigation via venography and IVUS. :)


1eye wrote:
I don't know about the MRI but the ultrasound is nearly useless in detecting CCSVI
I don't either so I'll keep mum till I do. I have read some good results using Doppler US. At the lab in Barrie they used it. It is useful for follow-ups, after the procedure has already been done. It is a screening tool, not a final tool to use in diagnosis, but more to direct treatment, which uses something better. Something like how Ultrasound Echo-cardiograms are used before heart angioplasty is attempted. We patients cannot tell doctors which tools to use but we can tell what research is going to be of no use to us. The patient has already had the heart attack, and its severity is tested by enzyme analysis. The Echo is the last step before the angio (at least it was in my case). Smoke 'em if you got 'em, but my mind is clear.


Agree completely.


tilt
...and I for one, welcome our new Neurologist overlords!

My before and after CCSVI treatment video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhosV4_DvWw
Visit my Lego Amusement Rides website http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?m=Bolliger
tiltawhirl
Family Elder
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby CureIous » Sat May 05, 2012 12:56 am

Yawn.
RRMS Dx'd 2007, first episode 2004. Bilateral stent placement, 3 on left, 1 stent on right, at Stanford August 2009. Watch my operation video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwc6QlLVtko, Virtually symptom free since, no relap
User avatar
CureIous
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby David1949 » Sun May 06, 2012 3:49 pm

Let's not forget this finding:
Conclusions:
Findings on a Zamboni-protocol US are not associated with findings on contrast venography in light of the high false negative rate; 99% of the patients with a negative US had a significant stenosis and/or flow abnormality treated with angioplasty. A prospective study is needed to define the role of US and other modalities in the non-invasive diagnosis of CCSVI.

Authors:
J. G. Almond1, M. Englander1, K. Mandato1, S. Parikh1, G. Siskin1

Source: http://www.sirmeeting.org/index.cfm?do= ... s&abs=2088

Also how about the azygos? You can't even see that one with ultrasound.
David1949
Family Elder
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: More Negative Results for Vein Blockage in MS

Postby FLJhawk » Tue May 08, 2012 2:30 pm

I had 2 of the 5 criteria and, from what the doc was telling me based on the ultrasound, I nearly canceled the treatment as what was found seemed so mild. But it turned out I had some interesting blockages that only showed up during treatment.
FLJhawk
Family Elder
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:35 pm


Return to Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency (CCSVI)

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users