Iron accumulation in MS-brain

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Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby Ernst » Sat May 12, 2012 4:12 am

I have been interested about iron in MS-brain. Some neurologists explain it quite different way compared to Zamboni's paper (2006) or to Haacke's papers. Mark Haacke writes that iron accumulation can be explained by CCSVI point of view. He has wonderful slides / photos and texts about subject. One photo is absolutely fantastic, but I want to understand it correctly, so my question is: What is in this photo below?

Image
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
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Re: Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby Ernst » Sun May 13, 2012 5:08 am

Nobody knows? Im just wondering that is that black colour around vein/venule Iron (hemosiderin).. or something else?
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
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Re: Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby Cece » Sun May 13, 2012 8:10 am

My guess like yours is that what looks like black deposits must be the hemosiderin. There's an arrow pointing to the black. If indeed it is iron deposits surrounding the venule, it looks terrible. Our poor neurons.
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Re: Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby 1eye » Sun May 13, 2012 9:56 am

MRI shows water content. If it is black there is absolutely no water (black holes show no tissue left, I think).
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Re: Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby Ernst » Sun May 13, 2012 10:42 am

That photo is from prof. Haacke's slides, which are incredible. Here is the slideshow: http://www.ms-mri.com/presentations/Imaging%20Iron%20in%20MS%20using%20Susceptibility%20Weighted%20Imaging%20(SWI).pdf
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
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Re: Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby NHE » Sun May 13, 2012 3:48 pm

1eye wrote:MRI shows water content. If it is black there is absolutely no water (black holes show no tissue left, I think).


While I haven't read Dr. Haacke's presentation, here is some basic info on MRI.

MRI uses EMP energy and measures the return energy from protons in the body’s tissues.

In a T1 image, the return energy is collected 20 ms after the initial EMP and H2O appears black.

In a T2 image, the return energy is collected 200 ms after initial EMP and H2O appears white. Lesions show up as white in T2.

I'm not certain what's being highlighted in the Haacke image, lesion, iron or both.


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Re: Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby marcstck » Sun May 13, 2012 11:07 pm

I'm not sure what the image shows, but there's a very good argument to be made that the iron deposition seen in MS brains is the result of nervous system damage, not the cause of it. Every cell in the human body contains iron, and when those cells die, the leave that iron behind. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that you would find iron deposition in the brains of MS patients, who have suffered damage to the tissues in their brains and spinal cords.

Interestingly, the fact that all living cells contain iron has given researchers a target for a new class of cancer drugs. Cancer cells contain more iron than normal cells, because they need the iron to help fuel their high rate of uncontrolled replication (which is what causes tumors). Scientists are researching compounds that would seek out cells with excess amounts of iron (cancer cells) and destroy them. I believe there have been some initial in vitro tests that have been encouraging…
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Re: Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby Ernst » Mon May 14, 2012 12:20 am

It seems that this Iron accumulation thing is also controversial. Haacke says many things about iron in MS- brain and he is quite confident that CCSVI explains this accumulation. One interesting thing is the location of iron; "around the veins" or "near the veins" or "in veins" and in thalamus, putamen, etc.
Some neurologist say that Iron can't accumulate like Zamboni (or Haacke) has suggested and this view is like marcstck said; the result of nerveous system damage.

Well I quess this is very important part of the picture, and time and future studies will tell more about iron. I find it very interesting.

more slides from Haacke (or originally from Zamboni)

Image

Image

And this one from old study by Adams:

Image
My wife's 3 yrs post video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLeqLps8XR8

Our family: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_QCKxeQAlg
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Re: Iron accumulation in MS-brain

Postby MarkW » Mon May 14, 2012 3:55 am

marcstck wrote:I'm not sure what the image shows, but there's a very good argument to be made that the iron deposition seen in MS brains is the result of nervous system damage, not the cause of it. Every cell in the human body contains iron, and when those cells die, the leave that iron behind. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that you would find iron deposition in the brains of MS patients, who have suffered damage to the tissues in their brains and spinal cords.

On the balance of probability I agree with Marc. However the question of chicken or egg for iron is best left to the researchers. Getting safe CCSVI procedures for pwMS is my focus.
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Mark's CCSVI Report 7-Mar-11:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/8359854/MS-experts-in-Britain-have-to-open-their-minds.html
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