How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

A forum to discuss Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and its relationship to Multiple Sclerosis.

How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

Postby vesta » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:42 am

I recently watched an interview that Dr. Terry Wahls, author of Minding Your Mitochondria, gave to Katie Roche on January 27, 2011. From her TED-X You Tube Video one might get the impression that diet alone healed her. Not so. There are 5 major aspects to her healing success. 1) She de-toxified from the MS medication which was poisoning her and doubtless worsening her condition by compressing the vascular system. 2) She eliminated foods and substances such as glutens which were also "poisoning" her. 3) She developed an optimal nutritional program which apparently includes nutritional supplements. 4) She developed a progressive exercise program to recover lost function and 5) She used an EMS (Electronic Muscle Stimulation) unit for neuro-muscular electrical stimulation to develop atrophied muscles on her back.

She does not mention the CCSVI theory, that the true cause of MS is a blood reflux which injures the brain and spinal cord, but in truth I believe she is treating herself for CCSVI in two critical ways.
1) Her nutritional therapy serves two purposes: A) It prevents stress on the vascular system caused by food intolerances and toxins and B) it heals damaged tissue while optimizing brain health.
2) The EMS electrical stimulation on her back is "balancing" the Chinese Bladder Meridian which runs down the back and stimulates blood circulation.

Apparently she is one of those MS patients (myself included) who does not need angioplasty to open a blocked vein. I believe the various vein abnormalities (wall membrane too thin?) can be more subtle than a mechanically treatable stenosis. Blood circulation can be restricted by a weakened vein which narrows intermittently or collapses because of stress and can be kept open without angioplasty by removing the stress (e.g.glutens, aspartame, mercury fillings, cold, flus, toxins, ambition) and enhancing blood circulation (EMS electrical stimulation, massage, acupuncture, kinesiology, osteopathy, swimming.) For these patients toxic MS drugs may aggravate the problem. Individual solutions for the venous blood circulation problem can be as varied as the multiple stress factors which
trigger it. That is why what works for one MS patient may not work for another.

Everyone can benefit from optimal nutrition. But some MS patients may actually have a "blocked" vein which cannot be relieved solely through Dr. Wahls program. And it should be recognized that she is in fact treating CCSVI.
She, like many MS patients, probably does not have a CCSVI structural vein stenosis which requires angioplasty.
Taken from MS Cure Enigmas.net
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Re: How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

Postby Cece » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:46 pm

Apparently she is one of those MS patients (myself included) who does not need angioplasty to open a blocked vein. I believe the various vein abnormalities (wall membrane too thin?) can be more subtle than a mechanically treatable stenosis. Blood circulation can be restricted by a weakened vein which narrows intermittently or collapses because of stress and can be kept open without angioplasty by removing the stress (e.g.glutens, aspartame, mercury fillings, cold, flus, toxins, ambition) and enhancing blood circulation (EMS electrical stimulation, massage, acupuncture, kinesiology, osteopathy, swimming.)

I have my images on this site, let me find them.
Image
See where the two jugulars abruptly cut off, leaving only a trickle to continue on? This was due to bilateral jugular valvular stenoses. This is common in MS patients. This can not be kept open by removing stress or enhancing blood circulation. There was literally an obstruction blocking the flow.

I agree with doing everything possible to maximize vein health such as some of the alternate options you suggest (EMS, massage, acupuncture, swimming, glutens). I disagree with thinking that because of doing all that, the blockage in the vein will go away.

Do you have images of your veins? It's the only way to know if you have blockages or not.
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Re: How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

Postby vesta » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:37 pm

I absolutely think some like yourself have blocked veins, especially valves and need a physical intervention to open them. In fact, until one can be treated medication is probably necessary to treat inflammation etc. But if Dr. Wahls could recover as she did, she must not have such an obstruction. I spoke about my very successful treatment to a young girl and her parents in 1990, she was going downhill fast, so they consulted my Kinesiologist-Nutritionist in San Francisco who later called to tell me that the girl had done everything suggested and she kept on going downhill. She probably had an obstruction and diet-energy therapy-supplements couldn't overcome that. That's why I think there needs to be some clarity in CCSVI thinking and have proposed "toxic" MS as opposed to "structural". I live in France and all I could get were Doppler Ultrasounds (twice) on the Jugular and Vertebral veins which returns turned up negative. The angiologue refused to look at the Azygos saying that if the Jugulars were normal, the Azygos would be as well. She was in contact with Dr Zamboni. I realize the Ultrasound isn't the best diagnosic tool, but it will have to do for now. I've decided against going to Brussels to get treated, I'm 64 now and feel I can keep things under control for the rest of my life. (I just posted Acupuncture Self Acupressure in the General section, it's also in the site MS Cure Enigmas) Have you undergone angioplasty? There have been cases where a stent is inserted and then the vein collapses above or below it. That suggests to me that the vein is weak and actually could be massaged or "acupunctured" open and maybe one should give it a try before angioplasty which might not work. On the other hand, if the valves are implicated, that's another problem.I also wrote reasons for my Angioplasty Decision. I'm curious to know what treatment you have had and the outcome. Thanks for your feedback.
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Re: How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

Postby Cece » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:43 pm

Agreed that angioplasty does not work in some. Yes, I've had it done, and for me I've been healthier and had improvements ever since.

I could be wrong but I don't think that jugulars in CCSVI have weak walls. Dr. Zamboni's recent paper showed findings of an increase in collagen III in pwMS's veins as compared to controls. Collagen III makes veins stiffer. When people get stents, the edge of the stent can irritate the vein and the vein reacts with an overgrowth of smooth muscle cells that reduce the size of the vein on the inside. It may look on the image as if the vein has collapsed but inside the vein there is a new blockage which is the reason for the lack of flow.

You know tight muscles in the neck can compress the veins, and massage could be relaxing those muscles and allowing better flow? It's why I do neck stretches now. But usually in pwMS there is at least one significant intraluminal inside-the-vein obstruction that can only be treated through angioplasty.

Dr. Wahls might have had a lesser obstruction that is still in place. She might have originally been misdiagnosed with MS as 5%-15% of people are. All her lifestyle changes might have been enough to strengthen the endothelium of the vein or to spark angiogenesis or keep the brain well oxygenated through exercise.
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Re: How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

Postby cheerleader » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:40 pm

I spoke with Dr. Wahls in San Diego at the Hubbard conference, and she still suffers from pretty bad fatigue. She was very interested in the CCSVI presentations (especially Dr. Cooke and Dr. Dake) I was really taken with her presentation, where she addressed endothelial health and her diet. I hope she gets her valves checked, but that's her decision. She's a smart and caring woman, and is doing incredibly well for someone with SPMS. No doubt her program is working.
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Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Re: How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

Postby Liberation » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:46 am

cheerleader wrote:I spoke with Dr. Wahls in San Diego at the Hubbard conference, and she still suffers from pretty bad fatigue. She was very interested in the CCSVI presentations (especially Dr. Cooke and Dr. Dake) I was really taken with her presentation, where she addressed endothelial health and her diet. I hope she gets her valves checked, but that's her decision. She's a smart and caring woman, and is doing incredibly well for someone with SPMS. No doubt her program is working.
cheer


Hi Cheer,
I am glad to hear that dr Wahls was attending the CCSVI conference. I was in contact with her, but a few months ago when I was asking her about CCSVI she told me that personally she would not do angioplasty to her vessels as any trauma to vessels will cause them to narrow again from scarring. More than a year ago I did angioplasty and even though it was not successful me that time I would consider doing it again if more experience is accumulated in this field that would further support the procedure. I am also not sure whether angioplasty will be the right way to address CCSVI in the long run.

When I first read the articles about dr Zamboni I was very enthusiastic about it and I could hardly wait to get the procedure done. I have to say that even some well known neurologists had high hopes about this procedure in my country. Unfortunately, it seems to me that MS is much more complex than many of us thought and results of the procedure were pretty much mixed. It seems to me that MS might not be a disease but more of a syndrome which might be caused by different things. One could be CCSVI, others could be bacteria, nerve degeneration, autoimmunity, toxicity etc. Lets face it there are patients who did a nice recovery after CCSVI procedure (even getting out of wheelchair) while others did the same after an antibiotics treatment or a stem cell treatment.

As I have not followed this tread recently, I would really appreciate if someone could tell me about where we stand right now with the CCSVI procedure. I would assume that there are more experience with the procedure (balloon size, destroying valves, etc.) and also that which symptoms the procedure helps.

Thx,
Lib
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Re: How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

Postby PointsNorth » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:55 pm

Dr. Whals' recovery could be compared to the most dramatic we've seen in the CCSVI domain thus far. It's too bad we cannot see Dr. W's veins pre and post Paleo diet! I will attempt to embark on the Paleo diet as I feel there isn't much left for me to try and my health is slipping.

It's interesting that Dr. Whals' fatigue is still a problem given improvements in other areas. The plot thickens.

Lib, I PM'd you.
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Re: How Dr. Wahls treats CCSVI

Postby vesta » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:35 pm

Dr. Wahls doesn't say she is treating CCSVI, I do. In 2 ways. I believe life stress and food intolerances "compressed" her veins so that she had an attack and the MS drugs worsened her condition by poisoning her, The diet serves 2 purposes, to relieve stress on the vascular system and to heal the injured brain tissue by nourishing it correctly. She doesn't mention this on her TED x video, but she also stimulates the bladder meridian on her back which increases blood circulation to the brain. In the 1980's I knew a spectacular recovery as well through detoxification, proper diet and supplements and "energy" therapies. Then I moved to France and went off the gluten free diet and couldn't find the energy therapies I needed which led to a setback. I believe there may be 2 basic kinds of CCSVI, "toxic" and structural. (A homeopathic remedy can "open" the blood flow, which implies that a "toxic" substance like aspartame can close it off. ) Check out MS Cure Enigmas.net for ideas. Oh and take note of the Olympic Champion who doesn't eat gluten, dairy products or refined sugar. If it's good enough for him to be in tip top shape it should be good enough for me. Vesta
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